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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Something New....

SSD's will be just what the doctor ordered. Best of both worlds. As soon as possible please!
 
This will be harsh to say, but I think Jim and everyone over there knows, they will continue to be called a joke until the stock issues are sorted out.

Just yesterday I was speaking with a Sony rep, and sure enough, it was his favorite line:

"You can get a RED camera if you want, but they are not a matured company, you can't even get an EVF or decent recording media. They'll give you 100 different excuses. Don't believe me? Just go to their forum.. Here's the address..."

That last part really hurt me.. Basically he's using US to make his point as to why no one should buy a RED.

Look, I think the positive side of this is that RED is going through a stock re-boot. They know in order to sell Epics (And RED ONEs) they will have to solve the stock issues once and for all. I'm sure they will get it done.

But... The clock IS ticking. The longer this goes, the more credibility is damaged.

I have faith!

Jay
 
The only joke around here is Sony themselves. Who gives a rat's ass what one of their little corporate manservants had to say? And the only clock that is ticking is the one counting down the days until Epic X wipes out the entire CineAlta division of Sony.

That Sony rep should be spending more time sending out his resume and less time running his mouth about Red, IMO.
 
Tom Lowe said:
The only joke around here is Sony themselves. Who gives a rat's ass what one of their little corporate manservants had to say? And the only clock that is ticking is the one counting down the days until Epic X wipes out the entire CineAlta division of Sony.

That Sony rep should be spending more time sending out his resume and less time running his mouth about Red, IMO.
Click to expand...

From Jay's post, the Sony rep wasn't calling it a joke - Jay was just referencing a general impression that exists to a significant degree. The Sony rep as quoted, was simply pointing out a very valid criticism - which is what sales/marketing people from Sony, RED, and most companies do. This kind of kneejerk response just adds to the credibility problems others can have with Reduser/Redusers.

I have been in manufacturing for 25 years and understand some of the issues and delays with the main products R1, Epic, Scarlet but never really understood the constant problems with accessories. If R1 sales are anywhere close to the 5000-8000 number thrown around on the forum (a large proportion with deposits long before delivery so no big surprises), this company has had major cashflow from deposits and sales, not to mention that one would expect it to be capitalized to whatever extent necessary since it's owner/founder is a billionaire. I don't say that to be snarky, the fact that Jim is a billionaire is one reason I was comfortable with putting down a deposit in 2006 (e.g. whatever happened to the Kinetta camera?) - so I'm just genuinely puzzled sometimes.

re: Kinetta http://kinetta.com/download/files/kinetta-camera-brochure.pdf
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
"You can get a RED camera if you want, but they are not a matured company.
Jay
Click to expand...

The side of the road to success is littered with "mature companies" that became complacent and took their eye off of the future.

IBM ... Motorola ... Chrysler ... GM ... to name a few.

You can always tell the most insecure kid in the class. He, or she, is the one that spends all their time putting down others.
 
Matured 4K

Canon4k.jpg
 
Peter Matthes said:
Matured 4K

Canon4k.jpg
Click to expand...

My wife has a hair drier that looks just like that. It takes her long enough to get her hair done now, no way I'm going to show her the new version has a built-in TV!
 
Very funny. Personally I love that Red isn't "mature", and I'll bet the house they will never allow that to happen to them. :coolgleamA:

From lips within the ranks of one of the corporate giants "maturity" spells a lot like tech-drip to me, minuscule upgrades as an excuse to sell a new batch of "money making units" (formerly known as cameras to them).

Thank goodness for Jim and his teenage drive. Thank goodness he doesn't understand that he has to sell his soul to the $ devil in order to be respected by corporations who traded their souls long ago.

This is a joke if I ever heard one.

P.S.: Of course there are also good guys working for them.
 
Whatever sales people may say in their endless quest to funnel money into their company's bank account, two things are undeniably true:

1/ Red has already created a huge impact on the motion picture industry with their products and innovation. Any competing company who still does not take the threat seriously is on track for a nasty surprise. And Epic isn't even shipping yet. When it does, multiply by 11.

2/ As a company, Red has serious stock issues. Some are caused by the very nature of the innovation - HDDs and CF cards vs SSDs is an example. The guys at Red are so keen to give us the best solution, they've stopped offering something they see as second rate before they're actually ready to ship the alternative. That's a mistake IMHO. And some stock issues seem to fall outside their control, with suppliers letting them down.

Either way, these stock issues are big, need desperately to be addressed and have the potential to hurt the company - and we, their customers - in the short-term. Over the long term, however, I don't see this train a-stoppin'. The advanced nature of the Epic will prevail despite these kinds of niggles. It would be nice not to have to tolerate them but ...
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
Very funny. Personally I love that Red isn't "mature", and I'll bet the house they will never allow that to happen to them. :coolgleamA:
Click to expand...

I'll bet my house too... upside down so you'd be doing me a favor to take it. :-)


Peter Matthes said:
Sony.
Click to expand...

Referencing your earlier post: I've been at multiple shows with Canon, Sony, and Panasonic people, some that knew I was an early RED adopter and haven't heard much knocking of RED. I could show a number of threads here with dozens of comments like Tom's trashing Canon, Sony, Panasonic, Arri, etc. I just came from the DEMA dive industry show where I was able to have very friendly conversations with the owner and employees of GATES who is my main competitor for RED underwater housings. I believe you can respect your competitors even if you disagree with their approach or think you have a better product.
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Just yesterday I was speaking with a Sony rep, and sure enough, it was his favorite line:

"You can get a RED camera if you want, but they are not a matured company, you can't even get an EVF or decent recording media. They'll give you 100 different excuses. Don't believe me? Just go to their forum.. Here's the address..."
Click to expand...

That might backfire... sending potential customers to REDuser. Anyone who spends any amount of time here soon realizes that like a family that will occasionally say bad things about one another, no one outside the family better say anything against.
 
Michael Hastings said:
This kind of kneejerk response just adds to the credibility problems others can have with Reduser/Redusers.
Click to expand...

There is nothing kneejerk about my thoughts on Sony. They are long considered. I can assure you of that.
 
Tom Lowe said:
There is nothing kneejerk about my thoughts on Sony. They are long considered. I can assure you of that.
Click to expand...

Tom:

I'm sympathetic to an extent. There are a lot of things that Sony has done that really bothered me too.

I became a Sony Systems Integrator in 1986 shortly after being on a test team and in national ads for their first 3-chip camera - the DXC3000. I canceled my contract when they came out with their Hi8 edit source deck without a Y/C connector - the only Hi8 or S-VHS device ever made without one - so you couldn't hook it direct Y/C to an S-VHS edit recorder. But it had a very unusual y-688 component out so you could hook to a Sony 3/4" deck. They did it to suit their own purposes in spite of their customer needs and I thought it was just too calculating and obnoxious.

And I had the original DVR-10 D2 edit deck (~$50K) which had a serious glitch on some insert edits (a basic function of those decks). They tried to blame it on the tape until 3M came up with a developing fluid to show the magnetic tracks and prove that it was mis-tracking the edits and since it didn't have a flying erase head (again one of the only edit recorders ever made that didn't-subsequent models did) it couldn't fix it. It took a threatened class action suit to get Sony to take it back.

But getting overly upset about the product differentiation and technology/feature creep of big companies like Sony and Canon is not being realistic. When you sell dozens of different models and hundreds of thousands of units you have to be more conservative because you can't deal with the fallout on that scale if you push the envelope and find out there is a significant problem. And once you have multiple products, you have to make them all fit.

Once RED gets all of the proposed epic and scarlet models out, plus a few new ones, they almost certainly will have many of the same issues. In fact, I suspect they are already doing some internal agonizing over exactly what models and features on the scarlet line will be brought out first and at what price point - based in large part on timing and competition.

PanaSoCan simply don't have the luxury of major delays and seeing how things come together internally and see what happens externally. They have to plan, and plan pretty accurately, because they have dozens of factories and tens of thousands of employees - labor, distribution, marketing, and sales - that all rely on a fairly steady and organized flow of products - (without even getting into investor issues).

----------------

PS: I was just thinking about that test team and the Sony ads - that's when I first met Mike Bravin, back when he ran a production/post facility called CCI - long before BandPro. CCI was a very early adopter of that era's gamechanging cameras, the Panasonic RECAM and then the Sony Betacam. :-)

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