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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Some cops harrassed me in the subway today...

Evolve said:
Shit man you've really bought in huh? The times we live in regista, are the times that you've been fed through the media. A REAL terrorist? Give me a break. The word terrorist is now used to describe anyone who is against governments and says so with any direct action. It's bullshit. Remember "you're either with us or against us"?
Did you know that 3-4 americans die every day from encountering american police officers? Seen the Rodney King tape? Not everything is as it is made out to be in the media, so stop it with the rhetorical "the times we live in" and cops are good guys. Sure some of them are. Be a white person and step out of line for what you believe in and you'll see how good they are. Be a minority and just step out of line.....
We live in a time of media propaganda my friend, and it's VERY important for you to not play into whatever the media feeds you, and to ask questions of your perception of reality and what forms it.
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If you have a problem with SOME police, please be responsible and say it like that. But to say most or all cops lie, or are this or that, is no better than saying bad things about Jews Blacks or Christians.

Your line about 3-4 people per day die from Police officers is both horrific and a terrible use of a statistic. You are no better than the media you complain about. What you neglict to bring up are the situations SURROUNDING those 3-4 deaths. It's no where near as simple as you would try to have people believe.

I lost an uncle who was a cop to a traffic stop. A 20 something African American driving a white porshe going 80 in a school zone (I'm sure he had a good reason though). Fred pulled him over, he was pretty angry, he went up there and asked the man what the hell he was thinking. It was the last thing he would ask as the young man pulled out a .38 and.. How do you say it? "Put a cap in his ass".

Did that expression upset you just now? It should, this is my point.

I wonder when people will learn that racisim is not about color, or skin, or job.. It's about separation. When you start saying "them vs. us" when you kill what "we" are about.

Without police, our cities would lose all control. It's funny you bring up Rodney King.. I was living in L.A. when those three cop cars were facing those 10 guys in East LA. The cops said "fuck it" (Under orders from their dick head chief) and instead of stopping them, they just drove off.

What happened for the next three weeks is what you get when there are no cops. Remember the trucker? Pulled out of his truck and almost beat to death, for being white.. Remember the one guy screaming on tape "No pity for the white man, no pity for the white man. I for one am DAMN grateful the cops are around. I've seen them do some amazing things, most of them are heros in my book. And I've known a couple of cops that were murderers. But they were not police, they were criminals in police uniforms.

And no, it's not the media. It's me getting to know them for who they are, not what someone tells me they are.

You need to understand you are nothing but a weak willed self centered animal. And no its not cause of skin color.. It's called being human. We're still bascially animals, it only takes a small push to bring out the worst in us. The day we all understand that, and accept that we're the same as a race.. Then we'll get somewhere.

Jay
 
Know your rights guys. There is no difference between RED and a handycam as long as it is not for commercial use. It's important to stand your ground! Don't let them bully you over. Take the ride down to the station because they won't be able to press charges if you are just shooting for non commercial use and not interfering with life. Again know your rights locally as a photographer. Some cities draw the line at a 3 person crew and sticks.

Think of all the art that won't happen if we cave and if we feel the local laws are too strict then we should challenge them. I feel very passionately about this.
 
I was passenger on a Us Airway 757 from Pittsburgh to Philadelphia at 7:15 AM on 911 to work at NFL Films. The next week I was shooting Jon Bon Jovi and his band in front of a firehouse on Lexington Ave in Manhattan, this fire house lost Nine firefighters on 911. The next day we shot Mary J. Blige & Lionel Richie in Brookline, both versions of the national anthem were aired Sunday before the NFC & AFC Football games that were cancelled the previous week.

I remember checking out of the hotel the next morning and looking over a map to find my way to Brooklyn. A limo driver came up to me and volunteered very specific directions.....That never happened to me in New York City.. I could not help but feel for a moment in time New Yorkers, (any maybe the entire country) really appreciated and respected their fellow man....

New York City was transformed for a moment in time.

The point of this story is.. A group people that repress the basic concept of freedom attacked a free society and our reaction was to repress basic freedoms and increase a federal work force that is under the control and direction of the government that has become repressive to our basic freedoms under the guise of "public" Security....
and we accept it.......
Who really accomplished their goal on 911?

Jay,

Great Points.. I would add our county was founded on the principals of:

Freedom, checks and balances in Government and basic human rights that have been repressed in many countries throughout history.

When a government looses the ability to act in the best interest of its citizens and acts in the best interest of the people employed by the government..It’s time for a change.....A real change..not just a different person in charge, put in charge by a political machine...fueled by corporate contributions.
 
Red Guy said:
Gun Deaths in US - 2001 - 29,573

http://thegreenman.net.au/mt/gun_deaths_in_usa.htm
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I think about those stats a lot. if you just take the homicide deaths for that year, 11,671, so just about 10,000 a year, every year since 2001, so about 60,000 since 9/11. now i am taking out the traffic stats, accidental and suicide deaths because those are different circumstances when comparing to war deaths but basically as I see it, why are the media and government focusing on terrorism as the biggest threat to US citizens when clearly US citizens are the biggest threat to US citizens? it doesnt make sense. how are we supposed to liberate and take care of the rest of the world when we clearly have problems taking care of ourselves?

obviously I, along with many, want the US out of Iraq but i want to go further than that. our focus should not be on the rest of the world, it should be on us! personally i think the best thing we can do for our country is to put our resources towards EDUCATION. I dont think you can go wrong by investing in the youth and future generations. only then do i think we will see real domestic change which will only enable us to then go out and help the rest of the world. only then when we are strong will we be able to represent the weak. education needs to be available for all, guaranteed undergrad and beyond for everyone. we need a more progressive education system rather than the outdated one we have now that we use without debate just because thats how its been done for the past century. if we as a country do not focus more on education, then I think are current problems such as economy, healthcare, foreign relations, crime, etc will just continue one this rocky road
 
Sorry guys but that's just America. A little bit "nanny-state" ish...

One of my early childhood memories was in 1986 when my parents wanted to take me to see Halley's Comet. We drove to an area without much light and sure enough just as we settle down, a police cruiser pulls up. The policeman interrogates my parents as to what they are doing, and obviously doesn't believe a word they say. So then he refuses to leave us in peace so we can watch the damn comet. Like we're doing a drug deal or something!

If I succeed in fitting a Scarlet inside the case of my HV20, I'll post a howto ;)

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
rgdfilmsRED said:
I was running around downtown LA, cradling my Red camera like a baby, probably walked about 10 blocks when I decided to get the infamous 'Reduser Subway Shot' I went up to Wilshire & 7th..I walked in without buying a ticket, made my way to the bottom track and setup my shot, waiting for the car to come. A minute later I feel a tap on my shoulder, it was 2 LA sheriffs. They pulled me aside and asked what I was doing, said I needed a permit to shoot there. I asked why?, especially when I saws tourists with their handycams. The sheriff laughed and said, 'That ain't no handycam..'

Then he told me that he and his partner were following me outside for the past 10 blocks, trying to figure out what the hell I was doing with myself. They parked their cruiser outside of the subway entrance and were stalking me the entire time.

Needless to say, I walked away confused until the sheriff told me that it was because of Terrorism that they followed me.

Thanks Terrorism.
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Sorry, but it sounds like the officers did the right thing. I'm really surprised that you thought you could setup a tripod and cine-cam in a 'target' area and not get hassled. You've got a pro cam, time to start acting like a pro yourself.

JohnG
 
You need permission from the city/state for all photography of public places.
Still/moving, handicam/cellphone/big cam/small cam/tripod/no-tripod. That is law.
One young tourist who took photos of downtown buildings is currently serving 20 years .
Apply for permit 30 days in advance, to be safe. They need some time to complete a background check on you, before issuing a permit.
 
John Godden said:
I'm really surprised that you thought you could setup a tripod and cine-cam in a 'target' area and not get hassled. You've got a pro cam, time to start acting like a pro yourself.
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Did he use a tripod? What confuses me is why using a large camera is more suspicious than using a small camera. I'd think it was the reverse. The legal basis for preventing the shoot apparently depends on "commercial use", so I guess big cameras carry a presumption of commercial use.

I'm not aware of a logical or legal basis for preventing the shoot based on any terror connection, unless the camera is believed to be a weapon.
 
chuckt said:
You need permission from the city/state for all photography of public places. Still/moving, handicam/cellphone/big cam/small cam/tripod/no-tripod. That is law.
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What location are you referring to? The quote below is my current understanding of the situation in the US. If you have different information from a reliable source, please post it.

"The general rule in the United States is that anyone may take photographs of whatever they want when they are in a public place or places where they have permission to take photographs. Absent a specific legal prohibition such as a statute or ordinance, you are legally entitled to take photographs. Examples of places that are traditionally considered public are streets, sidewalks, and public parks."

http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

published by:
Bert P. Krages II
Attorney at Law
6665 S.W. Hampton Street, Suite 200
Portland, Oregon 97223
www.krages.com
© 2003 Bert P. Krages II (Updated November 2006)
 
John Godden said:
Sorry, but it sounds like the officers did the right thing. I'm really surprised that you thought you could setup a tripod and cine-cam in a 'target' area and not get hassled. You've got a pro cam, time to start acting like a pro yourself.

JohnG
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I was not using a tripod.

A subway is a PUBLIC place. I wasn't doing anything UN-PRO
 
John Godden said:
Sorry, but it sounds like the officers did the right thing. I'm really surprised that you thought you could setup a tripod and cine-cam in a 'target' area and not get hassled. You've got a pro cam, time to start acting like a pro yourself.

JohnG
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AFAIK, two films I really enjoyed (Pi and Lost In Translation) both stole shots in the subway... they were smart about it though. For Lost In Translation they were careful to not record picture and sound at the same time. They sent in the DP with the smallest film camera they had, then once he had got his stuff, then sent in the sound guy ;) For Pi, I think that they just tried to work very quickly, late at night, in a quiet station.

Personally, I prefer Pi and Lost In Translation to the films that used more "professional" subway shooting techniques.

...or are you just saying he should have been more professional in terms of not getting caught?

Sorry if I missed your meaning.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
True that.. but I didn't actually use the subway car for transportation, so technically its not stealing. I walked down & back up. It doesn't matter, people that believe that what these cops did was OK, have issues. I for one don't enjoy the ever-growing support for the police state that America is quietly becoming. We should be able to film whatever & whenever we want. I can take pictures with my still camera whenever I please and nobody has ever stopped me. I've shot public sites left & right with my HVX and never had problems. These cops had no idea what they were talking about and the only reason they told me to leave was because the camera was simply 'bigger than a tourist camera' ..oh yea.. and for 'terrorism'
 
You probably have the right to film without sticks. Ian Bloom shot in New York subways within the confines of the law- take a look at your city's code and carry a copy on you if it is-in fact- legal.
 
The best defense against aggressive police is to have at least one witness with you...the more you have the better off you are...aren’t police states Fun!
 
CrewPix.com said:
Contrary to popular belief, we still live in a free society.

EVERY person making images for ANY reason should print out this pamphlet on Photographer's Rights and carry it with them whenever they shoot: http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

Some highlights: "Most attempts at restricting photography are done by lower-level security and law enforcement officials acting way beyond their authority. Note that neither the Patriot Act nor the Homeland Security Act have any provisions that restrict photography."
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Dude you are rocking this thread!
Thanks for the link and your creativity.

I have some helpful suggestions when dealing with cops. Wear a Carhart jacket. Do not try to browbeat them. Relate to them, and calmly inform them of the law as you understand it. Let them know you have a job to do, and a boss who sucks... You've been expecting them and this is routine. Because it is and you have.

Now have fun getting that B-roll shot of a plane landing.

IBloom
 
jbeale said:
unless the camera is believed to be a weapon.
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Therein lies the rub, my friends. Beale is right on that one. A camera may be perceived as a weapon both by virtue of how menacing and suspicious it may look, as well as for what it is capable of producing (images that some parties may not like disseminated in public).

That's why it's best to let the local officials know beforehand by way of securing proper credentials. It's really not that hard. You just have to learn to play the system.

BTW... I know a few police officers and believe me when I tell you that they're just doing their job.

Nobody, in any line of work, wants bad things to happen on their watch. Do you?

When it comes to shooting in what you may believe to be a public place (it'll surprise you how many such places are really not), the "better safe than sorry" rule applies at all times.

And yes, particularly after 9-11.
 
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