Solution to copy files more efficient on different Systems ?

[Fabian Benninghoven]

Hi everybody...,

i think everyone in the media production is searching for the best solution to copy data in the most efficient way. Me either. We are working on different systems, so we have to exchange and backup a lot of data. Our systems:

1. MacPro 5.1 (Snow Leopard) with USB2 & FW800
2. 2x MacPro 2.1 with USB2 & FW800
3. HP Z800 (Win7) with USB 2 (USB3 card not working proberly)
4. AMD Workstation (Win7) with USB2
5. Mac Mini (Mountain Lion)
6. Powermac G5 Quad as RAID-5 Server (connected to the systems: 1.-4.)

Why it is so hard to find an USB3 or eSata card which works well in all systems? Some users wrote that the Allegra Sonnet USB3 card is working well on Mountain Lion. Some users wrote the opposite. Weird. Some are working with Caldigit and some also got problems with it. I bought a LaCie eSata PCIe card for the MacPro 2.1 - doesnt work. Atm i do some backups with a USB2 docking station. Maybe its ready when i am retired.

What would you guys recommend to do? Buy 10 different cards and test them? I am so tired of this creepy hard and sofware. I just want to work.. :/

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I currently use the ATTO H680 for eSATA and SAS connectivity in both PC and Mac workstations. It works great in a Thunderbolt enclosure too. ATTO says the card doesn't officially support eSATA and they have had some issues in the past with evolving eSATA specs, primarily firmware incompatibilities with some port expander units, but all seems well now. They're every bit as compatible as any other eSATA interface I've encountered. It's not a cheap solution, but it is, IMO, still the best of the add-on solutions. Some people have reported problems with it here and I have yet to be able to duplicate any of those problems. Some of them magically start working and I've been able to help a couple people resolve issues, but a few remain a mystery. For myself and most other people I know using this card, it's been the best eSATA solution with the added bonus of SAS connectivity. I would also highly recommend the HighPoint eSATA adapters too. Have not gone wrong with any of them.

USB3 is a different story. Devices and host adapters are all a bit flakey, but slowly improving. I predict they will mostly be working properly by mid 2014 when the new 10Gbps USB standard hits the market. haha. The CalDigit 6GU3 card is a great option as it gives both eSATA and USB3 interfaces. But each of the two ports shares a single host channel. So you basically have one SATA and one USB3 channel on the card, each split into two ports. You're not going to be able to max out both eSATA ports at 6Gbps simultaneously, for example. Still a great solution though. For USB3 cards on their own, they're pretty much all the same few reference designs, doesn't matter who makes them. I avoid the Sonnet cards like the plague. The hardware is fine, but their driver support sucks. My favorite USB3 PCIe cards at the moment are the StarTech PEXUSB3SV4 -- it gives 4 USB3 ports and also accepts a PCI aux power connector so that all 4 ports can be fully powered! This is a glaring flaw with USB cards, especially USB3 cards out there. A lot of them provide the ports, but not the power within the ports! The card is $50 at NewEgg and works on both Mac and Windows. The down-side to the card is that you don't have 5Gbps discreet bandwidth to each port.

If you want 5Gbps discreet bandwidth to each port, the HighPoint RocketU USB3 card provides this. Total of 20Gbps onboard via a properly switched arrangement of 4 separate USB3 headers. It's a $130 card... There is one catch, it fails on the bus power front and does not supply ample power to your USB devices.

The adequate power to USB3 devices is a recurring problem throughout the industry, we even see the issue on big-name manufactured PC workstations. For those of you guys reading this, on a Macbook Pro (retina or old-style) with USB3 ports, you will get higher performance out of your USB3 REDMAG reader if you also connect the USB to DC power cable to the secondary USB3 port or an external USB power adapter! Same for those on an HP EliteBook and a multitude of other systems.

When you mention problems with the Mac Pro 2.1, that is to be expected, unfortunately. The CalDigit and LaCie USB3 cards, and most USB3 cards out there, require PCIe v2.0 to have proper functionality. The Mac Pro 2.1 doesn't have any PCIe v2 slots. The ATTO H680 isn't going to perform and may even be problematic in that system as well. The proper SAS/SATA host adapter there would be the older discontinued PCIe v1.1 3Gbps host -- the H380. Same goes for the Mac G5 Quad. ATTO doesn't even have drivers to support the H680 on that system. As for USB3 cards on that system, you're probably wasting your time. Too bad, it's a great system and one of my favorite workstations of all time. But let's face it, it's nearly 9 years old at this point...

The other thing you will see is that there are not a whole lot of options out there for USB3 adapters and the options are actually diminishing. USB3 is standard on any and all new motherboards and computers, so the market for PCIe USB3 cards is waning rapidly.

For Mac Mini and iMac systems, you're stuck with what they have to offer onboard. Unless you have a newer model with Thunderbolt and USB3 on the latest round of offerings, then you have a lot more options. On the older ones predating the Thunderbolt and USB3 offerings, one could hack a SATA connection to the outside of the system by confiscating the optical drive connector in most cases. But that method doesn't have proper EFI/BIOS support for full eSATA operation and the ability to properly hot-swap. So it was only a half-baked solution anyway.

 

[Nick Pasquariello]

Kilgroe: Better than Google.

The main issue, Fabien, is also the main advantage and exciting part: we're on the cusp of a shift in transfer speeds by about a full order of magnitude. USB3 and Thunderbolt are here, but they aren't HERE, for precisely the reasons you point out. The technology exists, and people know about it, and it's not prohibitively expensive, and yet most of us don't have it yet.

In a year, it'll be different. In 3 years, we'll have trouble even remembering those dark days back before 10gbps transfer speeds were the norm.

Unfortunately, it means right now, you can either by some flaky PCIe cards (following closely to Kilgroe's advice), or just by all new computers and try to offset costs by selling the ones you've got.

 

[Fabian Benninghoven]

Wow thx Jeff and Nick.

@Jeff: You hit the point. USB3 and Thunderbolt are coming up and growing, but no standard for us atm. Thanks for the idea of getting rid of the older systems (Mac2.1, Powermac) and replace them with current hardware. I made a Hackintosh to test if OSX is stable enough to work on. And the mainboard got 2x USB3. Better models also got Thunderbolt! Maybe thats the idea to have a better workflow in the next 1-2 years...

Thanks for that!

 

[JP Castel]

Wanted to add a little bit to this thread as I am also looking for some solutions. Talked to the sonnet guys today and this card also has the four ports sharing two host channel.

http://www.sonnettech.com/product/temposatapro6gbpcie.html