Software for Post

[Steve Freebairn]

Name ONE app you can't use RED footage in?

The way I understand it - it's only a question for NLE realtime editing from REDCODE RAW - which we know will be possible in FCP.

Any app that takes Quicktime can use the footage - AE, Fusion, Nuke, etc. etc.

And you can use REDCINE to create files in DPX, etc. etc.

I know that Red has provided a way for people to use anything from imovie on up, but, I am mainly wondering about using redcode raw in Adobe products as are many others on this board. At NAB a few of the Red team members mentioned they were working with Apple first because they had approached them (apple approaching Red) and that they wanted to get all three of the big A's supported because then they'd have 90% of the market covered. I'm just wondering how they are doing with their support for the products that fit into the Non-apple macintosh category. and don't think I'm a mac hater, I've got a lot of respect for apple and I even own an Apple Macintosh II e with all 4 drive bays (5 1/4")!

 

[GlennChan]

Finding the right NLE to fit with the budget has been interesting. I saw that many of the peeps who voted on the poll are going other than Apple. I'd be curious to know their choice and workflow. Is everyone going to online somewhere else? ...

I'd say that you should pick a NLE depending on your needs.

For online editing with client supervision and charging hundreds of dollars an hour, FCP just doesn't quite have the same speed+responsiveness or feature set as dedicated systems for that (Mistika, Quantel iQ, Flame, etc.). Things like paint, motion tracking / stabilization are pretty lame in FCP. For your own work you can do all that stuff in After Effects (and/or Shake); for clients the speed (and having to bounce between programs) may be too kludgey.

For other people, doing the offline and online on the same system makes a lot of sense. You save time by not having to conform, you aren't paying for an expensive online suite, etc.

Vegas ?

I find that Vegas is great for one man army projects... it has very strong audio tools built in, has some compositing tools built in, etc. For projects where you are doing everything yourself, you can get work done quickly in it. Especially when you don't have to deal with conforming your project to bounce between applications (e.g. Final Cut <--> Color is tricky; always test the roundtrip!). You can make picture edits without screwing up a final audio mix.

In terms of features, it doesn't do what After Effects (and Motion) can... though you can AAF into After Effects. If you need to interchange projects with other people, you're likely better off getting whatever NLE they have (likely FCP or Avid).

 

[Gbabymogul]

I'm just wondering how they are doing with their support for the products that fit into the Non-apple macintosh category.

Good question

Not just about RAW but the RGB version too. I'm not knowledgable enough to know whose bailiwick it is to integrate the NLE with those or even if RED will license it since they got into bed with Apple. Mmmm, sleeping with green Apples.

And is Graeme working on REDcine talking with the other non-Apple NLE's (to reconform from 4K original files) or is that some other app?

Excuse the ignorance

ps- thanks for the explanation on Vegas , mate

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Hi Jeff. By rental i meant the post production houses etc... for us it's about relationships (and skill sets) editors, colorists, sound, mix, vfx etc...so i really don't see that changing that much, in that way (since it's less the tech and more the talent involved).

OK... I guess I had some vision that you were renting time in edit bays and using them yourself. Sorry for not thinking that one through.

Since i want to do more personal projects and broaden my own skill set (within reason) it's less related to recouping the investment.

Now this is where that Mac Pro with FCS2 makes perfect sense to me. Or at least a lot more sense than anything from Avid.

Finding the right NLE to fit with the budget has been interesting. I saw that many of the peeps who voted on the poll are going other than Apple. I'd be curious to know their choice and workflow. Is everyone going to online somewhere else? ...

I think many are following Mike Curtis's lead and voting other because there's so many tools that can be used in addition to Apple/FCS2.

Vegas ? - Macgregor's using that right ?

I used to cut in Vegas with my DVX and really liked that software. However, I switched to Final Cut when I moved to the HVX200 camera since it was the best choice at the time to jump right in and get working. All the other Windows solutions were either incomplete or couldn't work with DVCPROHD without additional software/hardware. Didn't make much difference to me as I was already a mixed Mac / Windows operation anyway. I haven't looked back at Vegas though, don't really miss it now. I know that it was only 8bit back then... It might be 10bit capable now, but either way, I don't think that's what you'll want for editing with RED.

Adobe?

Premiere Pro looks very promising to use with RED. Obviously someone will have to give it a try and say for sure. But for budget editing on Windows, I think Adobe's production tools are the way to go. And I know a lot of PC indie guys are counting on RED working with Adobe software.

I guess the L.A test will be using Apple. Maybe we'll get a mini-review///

The LART team is pretty diverse. We've got several non-Apple types in the mix and I have no idea yet what sort of facilities or tools will be at our disposal during the test. And I may not be able to say once Gibby distributes the NDA papers. Personally, I will be traveling fairly light -- bringing a 15" Macbook Pro loaded with FCS2, Shake, Modo, Lightwave, Photoshop and a few other tools to supplement the mix. That and my DSLR and possibly an HDV palmcorder. It's only 2 days of testing. I'm also guessing that we won't be able to answer a lot of the questions being asked this past week on the forums -- like 2K vs. 1080p and that sort of thing. Just because a lot of features won't be enabled yet.

 

[Sean Michael Johnston]

Automatic Duck

...saved my life

 

[Gbabymogul]

Hmm, maybe a N.Y test for NLE's, Jeff ? The first Heineken's on me, hehe.

Another question could be who here will buy their NLE for the camera ( as you did with the HVX) ?

 

[Poi Boy]

I'll be using FCP as my only nle but lots of other apps from other vendors as well.
Aloha
-A

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I guess the L.A test will be using Apple.

Like hell I will! :biggrin:

The day I 'switch' will be the day my PC is pried out of my cold dead hands... or someone offers me a job that's at a Mac studio and they seem like nice folks and pay well.

 

[Sven Seynaeve]

being a premiere & afx user for some time now, I recently switched to edius broadcast in january. Stability is great and the soft runs really smooth, but the UI from premiere wich is IMHO about the same as FCP and features also I'd like to have premiere coming back to me with a nice workflow so i could abbandone
Edius wich lacks in audio fields and has some annoying reactions and interface (lack of some programmable shortcuts). If it would be necessary i would purchase a new mac system, but i would regret the incompatibility with my older footage who was mostly shot in edius hq codec and which i still need from time to time. So it would be nicer if they let us choose between the two platforms and being able to do about the same without any bad feelings.

 

[Jeremy Hughes]

The vote is split 50% to 50%, 34 to 34.

I will use both Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 and Final Cut Pro 6 at different times... probably. And also After Effects and Motion at different times, I'll use both CS3 and FCS2.

 

[Yuval Shrem]

To me it looks like the only "all-in-one" solution is Adobe CS3, granted that there is a proper codec support. FCS2 seems to have too many limitations (intermidiate renders required, problems with "Color", 2k support only, motion being way less accurate than AE...) and Avid is not a real option unless you have an unlimited budget. The only real question now is: Will we have to use Cineform to edit 4k RED footage efficiently, of will we be able to edit from the RED-Code-RAW files directly with no conversion.

I really hope to get an answer for this one.
(Yes, I know we can open the files in Premier for its support of QuickTime, but then again, what is the difference between that and the "native support" that was mentioned regarding FCP?

And one last question: Dose anybody knows what is the performance differences (if any) between a PC and a MAC with Boot-Camp?

 

[Russ McDonald]

We are Mac heads here, to many painful memories of the blue screen of death. Allot of therapy and a warm fuzzy blank'ee have gotten me through. I would like to take this opportunity, and I mean this from the bottom of my Lindsay Lohan heart. I want to thank this forum for the continued support of my recovery. I have to stop because I'm getting misty....

I hear a lot of talk about FCS2's Color app in more show than go, don't have it yet so I can't find out myself. I know Mark can answer this one.

 

[DigitalPraxis]

In exactly the same way as Crossing The Line was posted, at Axis we will be using a 4K Quantel Pablo as the main on-line and DI system working with uncompressed 4K and 2K files in real-time.

FCP will be for off-line.

Seriously can't wait to start work on our first Red project...

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

I hear a lot of talk about FCS2's Color app in more show than go, don't have it yet so I can't find out myself. I know Mark can answer this one.

Okay adobeone -

Here's my short answer -

I think of FCS2 Color as Final Touch 1.0 - Apple did fix all the major issues with XML and getting you project in and out - I sat down in a session with Apple and banged on it for a while - and I have to say that I was pretty impressed.

HOWEVER - as far as PERFORMANCE - it's SLOW - now, for SHORT FORM WORK (commercials, etc.) I think this is a GREAT solution for the DIY guys.

Will it get better? YES. 100%. I know for a fact that APPLE is committed to making the app killer - but there are underlying issues in the currect mac os that are bottle-necking that, etc. - IN TIME - I believe Color will KICK ASS -

And I suspect that we will start to use if for PROMO WORK, etc. -

Would I grade a feature in it? No.

Why not?

Simple answer. SCRATCH.

Yes, I know Scratch is too expensive for most DIY guys - but it's not made for DIY guys - it's made for facilities and high-end professionals.

I don't get a commission for selling Scratch seats - so, I will leave the "pitch" for their sales team - but I can tell you this -

Now that we own it - and have put half a dozen or so features through it - I can not even IMAGINE color grading a feature film in anything OTHER than Scratch. And native REDCODE RAW support just makes it a SLAM DUNK for Offhollywood.

That being said, I'm sure we'll see some GREAT looking films that finish in Color by DIY folks -

 

[Cail Young]

Would I grade a feature in [Color]? No.

Why not?

Simple answer. SCRATCH.

This is pretty much my view after seeing SCRATCH in action at SMPTE. I've not had too many issues sending HD in and out of Color but I haven't had the resources to fully test a 2K conform - and from what I'm hearing it's a bit flaky at that. Still, short stuff for broadcast or web... awesome!

 

[RivaiC]

How much is Scratch ? USD 100.000 ?

 

[Lucas Wilson]

How much is Scratch ? USD 100.000 ?

Rivai - much less than that. Please contact me offlist for any pricing discussions at lucas@assimilateinc.com.

Best,

Lucas
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ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA.