Social Network...

[Michael Cioni]

Thank you, Timothy. Very kind of you to say.
All I can say is while there are a dozen factors contributing to what ultimately can end up as a "strobing" look on a large screen, HDRx and Magic Motion are about to change that for the better. The good news with a lot of us in the community is once we have a tough project that we finish successfully, it's no longer good enough
m

 

[Timothy Eaton]

I noticed two elements of the film's look that I think may give us a clue about why the RED team is working so diligently on motion and HDR. Any chance some of this is in response to Cronenweth's experience on SN?

Michael, Above is from my initial post. I'm delighted to hear from you and read elsewhere on Reduser that no one is sitting still on these two significant elements of bringing the richest possible image to the screen.

Tim

 

[jake blackstone]

Jake-
If you're referring to the Henley boat regatta sequence, the extreme nature of the "tilt and shift" effect that was in the film was absolutely the desired look. Different, extreme, unique, sharp, soft...all of the above. In fact, that scene was made up of shots that were almost 100% composited - sometimes due to the desired look, sometimes due to location limitations, etc.


m

Yes, the regatta is what I was referring to. I'm not arguing the artistic vision. The questionable execution, is what I'm referring to. I almost wished, that S/T look was applied in the normal way, rather than hand drawn masks on selected parts of the image.

 

[andrewhake]

Michael, so the Regatta sequence wasn't using a TS lens? It was all done it post? Any particular reason why if this is the case?

 

[Bill Anderson]

Michael, congratulations on Social Network. Saw it tonight in Vancouver: full house including balcony. Loved your work: regatta sequence choices are extremely effective and beautifully stylized. Atmospheric, heady; until the weight of the muscle takes over. What contrast.

The movie's sound is absolutely killer too.

 

[Ian Vertovec]

Michael, if you don't mind me asking. What color space did you monitor your work on TSN as u graded? Rec709,DCI or other? If DCI, was it a trivial task preparing film/video deliverables that matched the creative intent?

Thanks!

709. I have yet to hear a convincing argument on why to do 2D RED films in any other way. Since REDcolor is designed for 709, if you worked in any other gamut you'd spend too much time correcting for the display. Time better spent being creative.

Once the principle creative color work is done, converting to other gamuts (print density, DCI) is pretty trivial.

As an added bonus, we were able to send David work-in-progress frames as he traveled, with a minimum of color management.

-ian vertovec
colorist, light iron digital

 

[Frank Cueto]

Thank you Ian.

I would think that having the added color saturation of other color spaces would be a bonus as far as simulating the final film deliverable in a more accurate way.

Rec.709 does make it a less convoluted process indeed.

Again, thanks for the insight.

 

[M Most]

709. I have yet to hear a convincing argument on why to do 2D RED films in any other way. Since REDcolor is designed for 709, if you worked in any other gamut you'd spend too much time correcting for the display. Time better spent being creative.

Once the principle creative color work is done, converting to other gamuts (print density, DCI) is pretty trivial.

I would suggest that working in the least restricted electronically displayed color gamut - which at the moment is P3 - allows more creativity because not only does it directly represent digital cinema color space, but it allows some colors that are not possible in 709. It is a similar argument as those that favor shooting in 4K for 2K and HD delivery, the notion of having more than you need in order to produce a "better" product at the lower delivery resolutions. As you say, going between color spaces is not a big deal, but the 2.6 gamma and wider color gamut of P3 is a direct representation of what will be in the DCP and what will be seen in theaters. 709 is not, even though in some cases the ultimate difference between P3 origination and a 709 to P3 color space conversion may be somewhat minimal.

 

[Frank Cueto]

I would suggest that working in the least restricted electronically displayed color gamut - which at the moment is P3 - allows more creativity because not only does it directly represent digital cinema color space, but it allows some colors that are not possible in 709. It is a similar argument as those that favor shooting in 4K for 2K and HD delivery, the notion of having more than you need in order to produce a "better" product at the lower delivery resolutions. As you say, going between color spaces is not a big deal, but the 2.6 gamma and wider color gamut of P3 is a direct representation of what will be in the DCP and what will be seen in theaters. 709 is not, even though in some cases the ultimate difference between P3 origination and a 709 to P3 color space conversion may be somewhat minimal.

Great to hear arguments for both approaches, thank you guys.

 

[Ian Vertovec]

I would suggest that working in the least restricted electronically displayed color gamut - which at the moment is P3 - allows more creativity because not only does it directly represent digital cinema color space, but it allows some colors that are not possible in 709

I agree. But really we are just talking about saturation. To me it was really REDcolor as the deciding factor. It's so saturated off the bat that having the additional saturation of P3 on top, I had to bring the control down to 40-60% before anything looked normal. You loose a certain amount of richness operating at a lower saturation in the system. This makes it quite hard to get the rich & subtle tones you're looking for.

In 709, things were good as soon as you got the contrast in the right place. And, as you said, the conversion to P3 was minimal.

Having said that, I just saw "Enter the Void" last night. Brilliant. That film was probably as opposite as you can possibly go from "The Social Network". If I was doing a 2D RED film and was going for a neon-vivid look like that, P3 would definitely be the way to go.

 

[M Most]

I agree. But really we are just talking about saturation. To me it was really REDcolor as the deciding factor. It's so saturated off the bat ...

One of the things that Arri got right in its original implementation of RAW conversion on the D21 was the inclusion of multiple color matrices that are user selectable, and that represent different saturation levels, but all targeted to the correct color space. So you had a choice of LogCFilm50, LogCFilm75, or LogCFilm100, for example, that would yield similar results but with different saturation levels, in order to accommodate exactly what you're talking about. To some degree, I think that's what Red is starting to do with things like Redcolor2, and it's a good sign.

 

[Joel J. Feigenbaum]

Saw Social Network on an AMC Digital screen. Even though the Sony 4K projectors were only delivering 2K, this film looked amazing. If you have not scene this film, do. It is well worth your time and money. The filmmakers are to be commended. RED is to be commended for the amazing tool they have brought to market. Can't wait until we start seeing films shot on RED cameras and released in full 4K rez for these gorgeous Sony 4K capable theaters.

 

[Kelley Muro]

Brilliant!

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Saw 'Social Network' last week here in Vienna at digital projection.

Excellent movie!!!

Great story!!!

Shot lot of scenes @ wide open T1.3 on Carl Zeiss Master Primes.

Short DoF, amazing cinematography.

But only didn't like a couple of fast focus pulls where even MP non-breathing didn't impress me.

For me no need of focus pulling in any drama scene at all.

Cut as a blink of eye is more natural and even faster than any non-breathing focus pulls.

Box Office Mojo: 'Social Network' Saves Face in Second Weekend>>>

 

[Tony Augustinack]

Loved the cinematography, great direction and acting. Just absolutely brilliant!

 

[Bill Anderson]

And very nice looking outdoor night scenes (even if only incidental) they held the atmosphere beautifully.

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

This was a very important movie before it even started. The event it covers is one of great importance and far-reaching sociological impact. The timing is great.

Everyone expects the world from Sorkin and Fincher. I feel there is no need to touch on that, but I also went in "knowing" only from watching the trailer that Jesse Eisenberg was going to put his cards on the table. As many do, I read nothing about the movie trying not to jeopardize my experience, but the bar was set oh-so-very-high.

I always felt Eisenberg had something very special to give, and it seemed like this might be a Sorkin (!) character customized for his potential. Fincher was to direct him... I was excited.

Then, "Creep" comes into the picture... one of my all-time favorite songs, interpreted with such wonderful taste and talent! Flawless marketing in my humble opinion. The bar leaps even higher... More weight is packed in before-hand...

Now that I've watched it I hope that others feel as I do. I want to thank Eisenberg. He delivered a great deal more than necessary to leave me satisfied. I am so happy for him, and for audiences. I hope to see more or him in high profile projects with names such as Sorkin, and Fincher involved.

I would love to work with Eisenberg.
I would love to write with Sorkin.
I would love to work like Fincher.

My two humble cents:
A more-than-worthy execution of a momentous social event.

Oh, yea... M-X looked great. But we already knew that here.

 

[M Most]

I would love to write with Sorking.

You'd probably have a better chance if you got his name right (It's Aaron Sorkin, not "sorking")......

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

You'd probably have a better chance if you got his name right (It's Aaron Sorkin, not "sorking")......

I have a spelling "problem", and a name "problem". That is, I don't put much emphasis on either. I do however have great memory for conversations, content.

Now, actually writing with Sorkin is not something that I would work towards. That was a humble compliment...

Thanks for pointing it out, but I will probably forget the proper spelling again... Few seem to mind, thankfully.

 

[Ian Vertovec]

I want to thank Eisenberg. He delivered a great deal more than necessary to leave me satisfied.

I agree. Jesse Eisenberg really does an amazing job here. Very subtle choices. He brought a lot of complexity to a character lesser actors would have done very one-dimensionally.