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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

So Why RED? Really?

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Also ARRI is not new to the film technology business by any understanding at all.
 
I think I am a good candidate to answer this question from the bottom up if you will. I own a couple low end video cameras; Canon HVX30, Canon HF200. I have regular access to a Panasonic HVX200. I have a still camera that shoots video. I've been looking in the $10k range of cameras myself. Honestly, I've not seen anything yet that competes with the Scarlet products. And believe me, I have tried to find anything, even if just a stop gap.

I think when some people say "Red Camera" that really is too broad because not all Canon cameras are for everyone. I won't be getting an Epic. I won't be getting a Red One. These are both out of my price range.

I've been debating between the Fixed and Interchangeable Scarlet for some time now. When compared to the HVX200, hands down, I'd take the Fixed in a heartbeat. Mostly, I am looking for more dynamic range in a camera. The resolution isn't as important (between the cameras) for me, but I welcome it.

However, when you look at the Scarlet S35, once I have either of the 2/3, at a minimum I could just buy the brain and a Canon mount for $7500 to get a camera that I have not seen ANYTHING even REMOTELY close to those specs.

But, to generalize my feelings, it's about freedom. Camera systems have restrictions and those restrictions limit your freedom on set. They make you add more fill light, they make you shade more, they make you bounce more, they make you carry more, all compromises to workflow.

So for me RED will just give me more freedom in my work and my shots. That's why I am a waiting customer.
 
Martin Weiss said:
Yes, I do. They may not see it consciously, but they (for lack of a better word) "feel" it. Call it part of the magic that is moving pictures. (And if it wasn't the case, do you really think producers would bother spending money on the camera department?)
Click to expand...

some explanation.. it has to do with the audience psychology.. there a certain factors that affects audiences experience through a certain movie..
it was known with the optical illusion games.. that began to be in the world since the 19th century.. and there is a lot of theories and experiments on that subject..
with such factors you can make different effects and different audience experiences.. you can include the optical control over details, depth and color quality.. you choose all factors depending on a given script for a given type of form..

in a simple way.. why do people go to film theaters while they can sit at home and watch television..? its a different experience with different psychological background..

I'm not sure my explanation is the best while we studied audiences psychology in a different language than English..
 
Well. My RED ONE is the "only" piece of technology I have ever purchased that is worth more now than it was when I bought it two years ago. Sure that has something to do with my "place in line" for MX-Upgrade, EPIC Stage 2 and SCARLET but it's the truth nevertheless. I once posted on this forum the following question... "Should I sell my RED ONE now and buy GM Shares at all-time low". Well, you get the point.

Also, all 1080p is not equal. Make sure you make image comparisons on a 55" or larger high-quality flat-panel television not on Vimeo or YouTube H.264 clips. Once you do that, you'll answer your own question. Within a couple years, everyone will have these new, large HD televisions in their homes and expectations will rise. I just shot some footage of my daughters cello recital today with my 24p DSLR camera because my RED is out on rental. I brought it home and played it in 1080p on my new VIZIO 55" and was like, ugh, sure looks better on Vimeo!

-michael zaletel
 
Dynamic range, image quality, scope for colour correction, sensor size.

It took me a long time to work out what exactly separates certain cameras form the next level down/up and it, for me, is the above 4 things.
 
Kenn said:
Been following this camera since I first came upon it in a web page
a couple years ago. Was interested at first until the price was revealed.
For now I'm still on a wait-and-see basis. Seems as when reading
through the other forums there is a lot of folks with some deep pockets
ready to drop 7k,25k, 50k on up at a moments notice of availability.
Steve Jobs place on the polls as the richest is in jearpody I think
if that many people can shell out that kind of money like that on a daily
basis. So my question is why does everyone feel they just got to have a
4K or 5K resolution camera. Is it A: To be like the big boys? or B: Because there really is this high demand for 1080p look-alike alternative? or C: You
got thousands of dollars laying around that you just don't know what to do
with it? or D: You see a "Market" demand for Red One,Scarlet, or Epic
footage? Do you think a consumer can tell the difference between 1080p
and Red Raw footage? I don't think so. Do you think they care what camera was used or do they care about the quality of the script?
These are only questions that I just had to ask,not to start anything.
Why not use your hard earned dollars and purchase a Sony,JVC, or Canon
HD camera. I mean really the quality is not that much different. At least
in the eyes of the uninformed. Thanks for letting me ask these questions.
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because you can use cineglass,
you have control and enough flesh to get the look you desire in combo with lighting
its 80 000 USD cheaper then the big toys which are equally good.
you "think" in a different way, because you have possibilities now.
Actors love to see themself on 2:35
it makes money...but the musicvideo and lowbudget Commercials shift to canons more and more in my experience
on under 10 mio. usd movies you can save thousands of dollars for the filmlab and filmstock which can be put infront of the lens (actors, production design etc.)

a good story is always a good story, but with shooting digital you save money and the good story looks good too
 
It's about physical delivery size not resolution. Watching 1080p on YouTube on a high-resolution computer monitor makes the video the equivalent of maybe 15" physical monitor, sometimes smaller. It's when you blow it up to 55"+ diagonal or in projection (even home theater) that you really notice the difference between RED footage and everything else. I can immediately see the difference even at 480p on Vimeo but that's me. The average consumer is going to get used to watching very expensive prime-time shows like Lost and CSI Miami in 1080p that were shot on 35mm film on these very big LCD and LED televisions. You'll see. Shoot RED or 35mm now if you can or you'll wish you had later.

-michael zaletel
 
Ian. I really appreciate your feedback. I researched most of my camera
purchases before spending the money to compare all features of each one.
I do admit that DSLR camera terminology sounded like foreign language to
me at first until I read up on the technology itself. A Scarlet may be my
first ever type of really high-end camera if I decide to get one,because
I have been reading and trying to understand what you guys already know.
I glance back at the material to get an understanding of why for instance
you'll use one type of lense over the other. This is how I learn.
I usually shoot video on consumer HD cam or a Pro-sumer cams so I
admit I have had little experience with a full-featured DSLR, but that doesn't
mean I can't pick-up any camera and learn it's features as I work with it.
I can usually get help from friends in the business to help me sort out the
trouble areas and then I research some more. I may not have the full
knowledge of the ins and outs. But I am definately not new.
 
Why Red and not some JVC?

Well first of all it's cheaper. Even an HVX is what? $5k. That's more than a 2/3" Fixed kit. And the 2/3" fixed has a bigger sensor. Significantly more resolution. Better color. More dynamic range and shoots a less compressed format.

Now let's say you want to get that nice 35mm depth of field. You could get a s35 package for about $10k. Which is comparable to what you'll spend after you buy a 35mm adapter. Some rails etc etc and an HVX. So again. You're saving money.

Why 4k? Because it makes 1080p better. Because it makes keying better. Because it makes tracking better. Because we don't really have a choice. If you can find a comparable camera for a comparable price which is 1080p I would strong consider it. I'm personally not married to getting more than 1080p. But I get it for less than free I actually get it for a discounted rate compared to a similarly spec'ed camera.

"So my question is why does everyone feel they just got to have a
4K or 5K resolution camera. "

I don't think many people actually feel the need to have 4k or 5k of resolution. I think people like the quality of the image (sharpness, color, dynamic range and compression) and they like the features (RAW workflow so that you can adjust white balance and gain in post instead of on set where people are already prone to making enough mistakes, highspeed framerates, large sensors for shallow DOF etc).
 
Kenn said:
Ian. I really appreciate your feedback. I researched most of my camera
purchases before spending the money to compare all features of each one.
I do admit that DSLR camera terminology sounded like foreign language to
me at first until I read up on the technology itself. A Scarlet may be my
first ever type of really high-end camera if I decide to get one,because
I have been reading and trying to understand what you guys already know.
I glance back at the material to get an understanding of why for instance
you'll use one type of lense over the other. This is how I learn.
I usually shoot video on consumer HD cam or a Pro-sumer cams so I
admit I have had little experience with a full-featured DSLR, but that doesn't
mean I can't pick-up any camera and learn it's features as I work with it.
I can usually get help from friends in the business to help me sort out the
trouble areas and then I research some more. I may not have the full
knowledge of the ins and outs. But I am definately not new.
Click to expand...

Like I said i was not trying to be rude... I hope it did not come across that way. And i certainly can't blame you from learning about it on here, we all do it. think of it this way... with a SD camera you are getting a postcard of the mona lisa, with a 1080P camera you are getting a really nice poster, and with 4k or higher you are getting the actual painting. though many people will think the postcard is great the people with the poster will realize quite simply that the postcard doesn't do the image justice. Meanwhile the people viewing the actual painting are busy staring into the lines caused by the individual hairs of the brush. needless to say, if you start with the best possible image your output can range from the painting down to the postcard... but no matter how hard you try the postcard and the poster will never capture the real thing.
 
again my apologies if i came across rude...I spent 6 months studying every known problem of the R1 before it was finally delivered. Even then I was a bit under prepared...trying to compare an image from a 4k source or film source to their 1080P downscale will yield similar results whether on bluray or 1080 internet source. but if you watch a 1080P source on a theatre screen it will not look the same as film or 4k on the same screen. I hope my explanations have helped a bit.
 
This is a very frustrating string :(

People who care about image quality care because we care, not because we want to play with the "big boys" or because we're too rich to care about how we spend our money.

More is more. Prettier is prettier. There are and will always be artisans (and as importantly clients) who care about pretty and are willing to pay for it.

Please use a respectful tone on these boards populated by people who care deeply about creating the best images possible with our craft and our resources.

When you can see the difference between a consumer 1080p Canon and Red, you'll see the difference.

Give me a can of that stuff.
 
I've ben reading this.

The person who posted is a two time poster who has not yet provided a real name.

Everyone is jumping up and down to prove that RED is good.

Stop getting drawn into this crapola.


Martin, you should stitch this up based on the fact there is no real name.

David
 
I agree with David. This thread is pointless and has more than run its course. Mr. Kenn didn't bother reading registration instructions, so he can sort that out too before returning.
 
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