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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

So what has the Red revolution caused till now?

Zack Birlew said:
Yeah, I think RED is going to be the standard once people get over the whole myth about it "not working right". So far, that's the only thing I've heard from people when I talk to them about RED (teachers, students, etc.). The next issue is the whole storage and backup question but that's always been there since Mini-DV.

Once SSD drives get higher capacities, a lot of the storage and backup issues are going to be solved. As far as the "not working right" thing goes, once we get to a build that combines all of the best qualities and stability of previous builds, constant good word of mouth will be sure to spread. Also, more Hollywood productions using the RED One/Scarlet/Epic will help too because, believe it or not, "Knowing" is doing a lot of good right now as far as getting people's interest for going RED in the future.
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Redcode is kinda major step forward, but at the same time backward - why? We just had a little four day shoot with this camera - the images are great etc. but if we didn`t have a postproduction company with scratch and fcp as support the r3d files would be a major pain in the ass. I can play them back fluidy on my brandnew quadcore phenom 2 but conversion of that 1 hour of footage would take at least 6 days nonstop, there must be something wrong with my system`s config, I know, but anyway, my buddy at the postpro company told me it would take 25 hours at his place, too. This is a really big drawback, since, in the same timeframe of 25 hours I could not only get my 16 or 35mm mags developed but also scene-by-scene colour graded and delivered as ready to use files. And before anyone starts to point out that we get "4K" with the Red One - I don`t need 4k, just 1080HD or even more, just plain PAL resolution (and no thanks, I don`t want to use HVX/F900 etc.) The people at Red first built a camera without the necessary post-pro workflows. 2 years later and we still have to go an offline-online route, just like in the "good ol" days of 35mm workprints...
 
Most bigger jobs I have worked on treat the data like film. They fedex drives to a facilty to do back up and dailies. I think the Red post takes a little getting used to, but with the right hardware, and using the right methods, it's pretty painless for the average editor.

Cheers,

Nick Gardner
 
Anil,

There is a complete forum here on RED User dedicated to RED workflow - that forum is titled "RED Workflow". I see this is your first post on RED User, and by the sound of your post, I'd guess you're not real familiar with the RED camera, and the options for post production. The assumptions in your post really don't match up well with the realities of post production for those of us who regularly use RED One. I'd suggest you comb through the RED Workflow forum for methods and workflow procedures for RED files - and have your editor do the same. Everyone new to RED has a learning curve for using the camera, processing data, and post production options. All of us here who have used the camera spent time on that learning curve - in fact, since the camera regularly evolves, and new cameras are on the horizon, the learning curve is an ongoing thing - it never ends.

The Search Tool here on RED User can be your best friend - and the best friend of your editor.
 
Happy anniversary digital

Happy anniversary digital

RED a revolution?
The video and film motion picture market is too diverse to say that Red is a revolution across the board. It is a revolution for some business practices and self funded indies but RED hasn't had a significant effect on the industry as a whole, especially given there are 5000 cameras in play.


There is no question that RED is building on this digital revolution that started a decade ago and 2009 should see a greater adoption of digital for features than in previous years.


RED has innovated camera design by going public throughout its development and creating a compressed raw workflow. Its price point created huge sales, which puzzlingly have not yet created a significant volume of notable projects to a point where it even trounces HD/Genesis/F35 let alone film.

Most other tech performance aspects of the camera are not revolutionary and some specifications and ergonomics were/are a step backward.
Yet many say the camera itself is revolutionary when 4k imaging, hi res viewfinder, file based format were available and in use years ago. That is not to say Jim and co haven't come up with some clever innovative never done before features.


In respect to other market sectors RED hasn't revolutionised documentaries, sports, features, drama or music videos any more than HD video or DV did.

Could RED products become the widest used digital motion picture camera, yes. Has RED revolutionised the industry? No.
In any event I think it has started late in the day to give it all the credit!

Initially things kicked off in late nineties with DV on indie features.
Then HD video followed (and was used on more features in its first two years than RED has done so far).

RED has hit film-like resolution but still is below spec of many digital cameras when it comes to processing information off the chip. This should be solved with EPIC and its 14bit AD and >12 bit recording which are significant improvements that will be another step forward for RED. (although this spec is already available now in other cameras)


In the meantime consider that the move to digital started a decade ago, a notable anniversary to which to refer by those wishing to promote any digital format.



Michael Brennan
 
Lens revolution

Lens revolution

Jeff Coatney said:
1. Introducing new high quality lens options in the PL format, by a new manufacturer, in what has previously been a static market is bound to cause some fluctuations in pricing.
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Fujinon's range of PL mounts and latest Arri Compacts have offered a little innovation in recent times.

Optex excellence broke new ground with use of telecentric design.

There was no demand to offer anything any different until digital cameras and Dcinema started to show up lens "characteristics" that were often disguised by the film medium.



Mike Brennan
 
Jeff Coatney said:
5. The term "Workflow" as it has applied to discussions on RedUser in the past and even now in the context of this thread must be redefined. Moving forward, with or without Red specifically, professionals in the field of motion picture post production, editing and finishing, must embrace the concept that innovation is the new normal. Therefore, there will be many solutions available to service the needs of "Post" and the days of predictable, flying on auto-pilot post workflows are no longer available. The "Post" professional of the very, very near future must adapt easily and readily and proactively to changes and improvements in "Post Workflows". One cannot master one type of workflow system and expect to compete or even be economically viable as a professional. No other segment of the economy that has made the transition from analog to digital over the last twenty years has been able to escape this fact. The fast, the nimble, the intelligent will rise. The old, the slow to adopt, the ignorant "not up to speed on current thinking" folks will fall by the wayside. This phenomena gives rise to new aesthetics in the medium and your traditional experience may no longer be relevant. So, get up to speed yesterday if you want to be relevant.
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What post professionals are you dealing with?

There's been 2 decades of innovation in post as it transitioned to digital so far. There will be many decades more.
 
I don't know that RED is really revolutionairy in any most senses.

They didn't particularly introduce anything *new*.

There were already RAW based motion formats.
There were already CMOS cameras.
There were already inexpensive, relatively high quality cameras.
If you have the money Film is still an option.
If you don't have the money then you're stuck with HDV which is pretty amazing.
Lights, Lenses, tripods and talent haven't gotten any cheaper.
There were already big budget features shot digitally.

I would say the F900 or viper was as revolutionairy as the RED camera. Especially in pioneering digital as a potentially viable medium.

RED did everything better and cheaper than the competition. But they're sort of the "apple" of the Digital Cinema world. There were MP3 players before the ipod. There were Smart Phones before the iphone. They didn't really create much new but they created a great retail product.

I think any real revolutionairy title that could be claimed has already been claimed by the indie-DV/HDV revolution that proceeded it. DV defined the "lab on a laptop" concept. It pioneered the zero budget completely independent film.
 
Meryem Ersoz said:
That's because the camera is working so well and the post-workflow is working well enough now, that we are all too busy shooting projects to engage in pointless non-debates with spam queens.
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agree with this one, for nearly a year for me this forum has been a place to find relief from my long and painful wait for my R1 ... now busy working and shooting. still come here for very useful info and equipment sales :)
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
I don't know that RED is really revolutionairy in any most senses.....

I would say the F900 or viper was as revolutionairy as the RED camera. Especially in pioneering digital as a potentially viable medium.
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The Ikegami Handy looky steals the show, a live video camera with separate recorder that could be used for news.


Although not adopted (much for drama) the introduction of the HDW700 camera was a hugh leap by introducing 2 million pixels and HD recording in a camcorder. But since it was being forced on news stations by Al Gore's edict it wasn't a revolution in the streets.

It is intersting that some fantastic kit has sbeen made that is a revolution in engineering but hasn't always sporned a revolution by end users.

DV qualifies.




Mike Brennan
 
There was, and still is, a lot of B.S. in the cinema equipment industry. The people at RED recognized that and saw great potential in exploiting the fact that the other equipment producers had grown too large to change their tactics and still make a profit. Almost NOTHING would have changed in camera tech and prices if RED gave up.

I do not own a RED, but I know I will. If you are involved in creating visual content for viewer consumption, it just makes sense to own a RED product(s).
In the long run... the pro cinema equipment prices will even out across the manufacturers, and some will get out of that business. I hope RED sticks around and never gives up.
 
This is gdv's opinion, nothing more. And his comments are far from providing an accurate frame of reference for what has been achieved in so short a time.


1: Pointless
2: Less than pointless
3: Foreseen and predicted (as being a natural extension of RED sales) on this forum a long time ago: Egalitarian RED is not in the business of creating an elitist rental market.
4: This is an exceptional achievement and continues to become more so.
5: How were the so called "few feature films" Posted? There are many users new to the Post environment and since digital Post is changing at such a rapid pace there is bound to be a great deal of investigation. Even chaos at times.
6: "Big Hype" is a very callous and simple minded way to describe what took place then- and what is taking place now.
7: Very astute
8: When you consider how slowly change is embraced by many of the so called "big cannons" it's still way too early in the game to describe RED's position as being "ignored"; and to insinuate that there is no interest or merit in what RED has to offer these people, is just mean spirited.
 
The concept of Red is owner-operator.

The essence of the Revolution is to try to change the industry from rental based to owner-operator based.

As far as the Red One is concerned, it seems to be working, as it is the norm in many markets that if you rent a set of lenses you can get a Red One thrown in for free.

It's all well and good to own one and shoot with it yourself, but as a rental prospect it isn't really the best.

However rental cameras (435, Genesis, F35, etc) seem to be as popular as ever.
 
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