So, is it worth it?

[eastwaviking]

We are waiting for our Red Camera to arrive. But, it seems like since
last NAB and now a lot of the magic promised has disappeared. Simply shoot
to a hard drive, plug it into you FCP system and edit away...right? Well
you can't edit 4k, and even the lesser settings are not real time. I edit
commercials and short movies. We have a movie lined up for April with clients
who are paying 300 dollars an hour to sit behind me and watch their movie
come to life on a large flat panel....but You can't get the footage out to the screen because: "At this point, there is no direct support for playing RED footage out via KONA, AJA, Blackmagic, Matrox or Bluefish in RedCine or Scratch."
I also hear it is too noisy to shoot close shots with audio.

Why do I want this camera? Somebody let me know if I am totally wrong.

Thanks

Clint J

 

[Arnaud Paris]

I understand that many people bringing testimony of bad experience with this camera could get you worried.

This is a new technology that people need to get used to. There is definitely an expertise that has to be grown around using this camera for things to be working perfectly smoothly. But remember that was the same thing when HDCAMs came out.

My advice is to maybe do a small project without big things at stake first and then if you like it go for your 300$/hour client.

By the way our Scratch outputs realtime to the bigscreen. Feel free to get it touch with companies like OffHollywood or ours if you want more details regarding real life experience with the Red workflows on major projects.

 

[Nick Wolf]

Feel FREE?
or
FEEL free?

 

[Arnaud Paris]

Sorry I did not get that, did I make a mistake in my sentence?

 

[Joel Kaye]

We are waiting for our Red Camera to arrive. But, it seems like since
last NAB and now a lot of the magic promised has disappeared.

Rent one for a weekend, do a one day shoot and see what you think. I'd probably wait for build 15 since it appears you have some time to decide.

 

[donatello b]

"We have a movie lined up for April with clients
who are paying 300 dollars an hour to sit behind me and watch their movie
come to life on a large flat panel"

so that's 8-10 hrs a day = 2400-3000 ... for that price you get whatever it takes ... you could get the 50k scratch box and render out clips to whatever codec your current set up needs ... or use FCP lowest proxy's and then finish on scratch ...
there are many editing commercials ...

"Why do I want this camera? Somebody let me know if I am totally wrong."

from your post you come across as a editor - so i too have to ask why do you want the camera ?

 

[Peter McCully]

We are waiting for our Red Camera to arrive. But, it seems like since
last NAB and now a lot of the magic promised has disappeared.


Clint J

Having just had a music clip shot on my Red with Arri Ultra Primes and seen some beautiful footage rivaling 35mm, with 35mm depth of field, rich colours and vibrant tonal ranges, what alternative can there be? The only other budget choice we had was Digibeta. I know the post workflow needs a lot more development but I'm willing to be patient. The results for this system speak for themselves but if that's not enough for you, by all means pull out and choose from the many other systems with SIMILAR SPECS AND PRICE RANGES.

 

[I Bloom]

We are waiting for our Red Camera to arrive. But, it seems like since
last NAB and now a lot of the magic promised has disappeared. Simply shoot
to a hard drive, plug it into you FCP system and edit away...right? Well
you can't edit 4k, and even the lesser settings are not real time. I edit
commercials and short movies. We have a movie lined up for April with clients
who are paying 300 dollars an hour to sit behind me and watch their movie
come to life on a large flat panel....but You can't get the footage out to the screen because: "At this point, there is no direct support for playing RED footage out via KONA, AJA, Blackmagic, Matrox or Bluefish in RedCine or Scratch."
I also hear it is too noisy to shoot close shots with audio.

Why do I want this camera? Somebody let me know if I am totally wrong.

Thanks

Clint J

Clint,

Please understand that all of the post "difficulty" that people speak about on this forum is about one thing: Extracting "the best image" from the 4K Redcode data. Getting an image and a pretty damn awesome looking image via the proxies, is very easy... TODAY.

It's not that no RED post workflow exists for most users... no 4K workflow exists anywhere for any camera, except to the very high end users.

Yes there is a learning curve and yes there are many ways to skin a Redcode cat. My advice to you if you are worried about this camera is to go rent one for a day. Shoot something easy. Take it back to your studio and cut something with it. Then you won't have to ask. You can decide for yourself.

IBloom

 

[Mike Prevette]

Just think of it as film. You shoot film, do a "one light", cut off that, then retransfer, and conform. THERE IS NOTHING NEW HERE!

As a half post / half camera guy it's pretty easy.

 

[David Birdy]

Clint I'll be happy to take you reservation or swap reservations.

Take a look at Red relay and yes you can get a real time 720P output from the HD-SDI on the camera. You can also process QuickTime proxies from the drive.

Dave

 

[mikeburton]

I can understand Workflow woes from the PC guys as there is not YET a smooth working solution like FCP has. But IMO, I have had almost no trouble at all in the Apple workflow. I am an editor so i suppose if your not it could seem daunting, but its really pretty clear cut (no pun intended
And, you have and will get in the near future (wink, wink) quite a few different ways to set up your workflow dependent upon your needs, ie, quick turn around commercials - Feature film, in the quality you deem necessary for your clients to view.

I suggest, like others have already, link up with a RED owner in your area and ask nicely for a demo day and shoot some tests, bring the footage back to your editor and experiment with the different workflow's available. Don't take others word for it, you might find it easier than it sounds.
Also keep in mind this really is the infancy of the camera and workflow's which are still very much in development.
Bottom line, if you like the results you get from the camera, you will be able to make it work in post for your needs with a little experimentation to get your feet wet before your big money clients come storming through the door.

 

[chuckt]

you can't edit 4k, and even the lesser settings are not real time.
You can't get the footage out to the screen because: "At this point, there is no direct support for playing RED footage out via KONA, AJA, Blackmagic, Matrox or Bluefish in RedCine or Scratch."
I also hear it is too noisy to shoot close shots with audio.

Why do I want this camera?
Clint J

Clint, You answered your own question.
Be practical. Your clients would be happier if you use proven technology.
Get a Sony/Panasonic HD camera and shoot and edit and get paid.

 

[PeterM]

Forget all the hype about the RED.
The Red is cam still under developing ( hard and software) which gives us a great change for a lot of high res productions to a resonable price in future.
BUT the red will not make Sony EX1 or Panasonic useless. If you need a quick post like ENG or standard comercial and dont need 2K+ or 4K. simple take approved workflow for sony Pana or so on.
Especially you "only" do an SD video for eg DVD.
My honer to red because they are the Start point for changing 35mm to digital.
Hopefully they will not be the only one in future.
In my oppinion it will take till summer most problems are soved which are.

Red firmware
Propper Quicktime support.
Propper integration in Post (not only FCP)
resonable delivering times when buy
enough Cams in the feeld to rent

 

[Omnius]

Sorry I did not get that, did I make a mistake in my sentence?

No Arno.
You made no mistakes in your sentence.

The dog was dropped on his head as a child and forgot to take his medication this morning.

 

[Nick Wolf]

The Dog has simply picked up on a scent.

 

[cinepost35]

Clint
To be direct if you don't get what you can truly get out of this camera and as it sounds like your clients may not really know what they are missing if they are of the caliber they think things just come to life in front of there eyes. You or they may never realize the full potential of the camera anyway. Film or digital.....nothing special just come to life in front of your eyes. Projects come to life during the entire "process" of filmaking.

Other cameras that AUTO process your footage and give you instant results throwing away all the information it thinks you may never want or need might be better suited to your needs

 

[Matthew Rogers]

"At this point, there is no direct support for playing RED footage out via KONA, AJA, Blackmagic, Matrox or Bluefish in RedCine or Scratch."

I'm confused.... I thought if you were editing in FCP from the proxies created in RedAlert that you could get an output onto any HD card. If not, why? I thought any codec that FCP could support could be played out on those cards...

Matthew

 

[jbeale]

I'm confused.... I thought if you were editing in FCP from the proxies created in RedAlert that you could get an output onto any HD card. If not, why? I thought any codec that FCP could support could be played out on those cards...

If he wants the highest-quality debayer from 4k scaled to 1080p in realtime, that may not be possible right now, although I don't know. (But I'm not sure why you'd really need that level of quality in realtime just to edit with.)

 

[Jeff Coatney]

I think its a tad bit early to be overselling clients on what's possible with new technology and a new workflow. I think we all have a responsibility to educate the client-base about this new system, but I would stop short of promising an experience that exceeds what they're already used to. With any new technology, there is a tendency to rely on it as a selling point, but to avoid building unrealistic expectations in your client's mind as well as your own, I'd focus on the image quality, financials and flexibility in post.

If your clientele requires immediate gratification over quality, and they won't give you the time to conform the footage, what kind of projects are you working on? Any project I can think of that could use a Red also requires planning and a schedule.

 

[Jan Reiff]

i do have the ex1 here, using letus and pl mount and arri lenses.
it´s a great tool with absolut "film" images.
but for me it´s the red, and i am looking forward to get it soon.
i like its compact design, plug and play with hiresolution and 35mm DOF, with its connecting possibilities with arri stuff. you can achive superb images with a small ex1 and filmkit, but these kits are often a huge construction on the camera. and from all stuff i have seen so far, can be ex to hdcam, i liked redfootage the most. maybe just a personal taste, but for me there´s no alternative in this market to get stuff comparable to a much more expensive system. there´s no need for an expensive HDcam Recorder for example. and i think the camera-series now is absolutely solid and useable to produce great images. my biggest wish for now is, that they go up to 750 cams / month delivery... projects are waiting...