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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

So is 24 frames per second "good enough"

I know... I held back from saying 120fps due to 1/48th motion blur, but if you have a budget for film, you could easily argue that you can shoot everything at 120, giving you 500% 400% 300% 200% and 100% speeds with no penalty as long as you had a good VFX to blend frames into the 48th blur look... especially if such a thing became powered by Rocket or Cuda... ;P

However, if you want real 48/48, as I would, then the only way to do it is by shooting 48fps. It is nice to know that in the unlikely event 48fps happened soon, you already have a camera that lets you shoot 250% slow-mo for it. Kinda likt 24fps delivery and 60fps max framerate... Well, there you have it, even more proof that Epic is from the future. :)
 
Deanan said:
or 5k 72fps
or 5k 96fps
or 5k 120fps

4k@48 deliver works quite nicely because you can derive a normal 2k 2D@24, 2k 3D@48, 4k 2D@24, 4k 2D@48, or 4k 3D@48 depending on how you want to edit/post/deliver.
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Cool stuff, absolutely! Scarlet 2/3rds should be able to do stuff like 48/96/120fps too, right? Albeit 3K. With sync sound? And you can hook up 2 or 3 cameras via USB and get them all to stay in sync?

To me, shooting in stereo (or with three cameras) and at a higher frame rate has huge implications for post when you're doing effects:

the downside: you have more frames and resolution, plus stereo - EG far less of a chance for the old cheap hacks to work. You can't just Photoshop all of the frames when the CG screws up (like they did for tons of frames in T2 - and continued to this day ;) There are too many frames PLUS you have to do it in stereo.

the upside: you're giving 3D trackers far more information, so in theory all of the automated tools that everyone has developed and which HALF work right now (when they get fed good info) should actually stand a much higher chance of working properly. Image based keyers, roto helper tools, etc. should all actually not suck once they figure out algorithms that correctly use all of the information provided. Tons of fps (and less motion blur) + more resolution + parallax information should make things awesome in the long run.

Just need to wait a few years for the software development though. Can't wait for NukeX or pfTrack version 9... or something completely new.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Good idea. You could/should shoot 48fps even when you want to finish at 24fps. For CGI.

Have an expensive VFX shot you want to shoot at 24/48? Shoot it at 48/48! :)
 
Cameron must have not heard about Epic before this interview, with which you will be able to shoot 48/48 at 5k, finish at 4k, with easy 2k and 24fps alternatives. Everything he said he would want.
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that's exactly what I thought. though I can hardly believe that he didn't hear about it....

Deanan said:
or 5k 72fps
or 5k 96fps
or 5k 120fps

4k@48 deliver works quite nicely because you can derive a normal 2k 2D@24, 2k 3D@48, 4k 2D@24, 4k 2D@48, or 4k 3D@48 depending on how you want to edit/post/deliver.
Click to expand...

exactly what I was talking about.... and maybe you should invite cameron over to the next RED tea party ;)

having the ability to shoot 48/48 @ 4k is maybe the biggest leap, and although I'm not holding one right now, RED & EPIC will provide that... now make it a worldwide standard. easy, huh?

and what about RED RAY and projectors with 48fps? seems to be "easily" manageable" :D
 
The only reason we're shooting 24fps is because 18fps was too slow to sync with sound reels in 1926 when "The Jazz Singer" was shot. It's that simple.

Perceived motion can be attained in even lesser increments than that. It comes down to personal preference.
 
yea the T1i shoots 20 fps .. i read that in a review i could be wrong

personally id rather shoot at 48 /60 and beyond .... something about blu ray does not look as filmic to me but everything evolves

i was watching batman begins blu ray tonight and it seemed like they were shooting higher frame rates

im pretty sure christopher nolan only shoots film but IMO it looks different .. it looks digital maybe its overcranked???

same thing with Dark knight and i know that was shot film but it does not have the same feel on blu ray


just to try and make sense of this ..

i dont know if its higher fps or its just the blu ray quality ??
 
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It would be great if one day we have cameras with variable framerate shooting and "smart" tripod heads connected to them.

The tripod head would be equipped with sensors and when you're making a camera movement, they detect the intensity of the movement and send that data to the camera. Then the camera would automatically ramp up the framerate according to the speed and intensity of the movement, for example - a gentle ramp from 24 fps up to 28 or 32 fps for slow pans, or 60+ fps for more intense and fast movements. And of course, all of that - completely programmable and manually controllable (if necessary). That way you get both the 24 fps magic and also the fluid motion.

Similar solutions for cranes, etc.

Dreams, dreams... :rolleyes:
 
karapetkov said:
It would be great if one day we have cameras with variable framerate shooting and "smart" tripod heads connected to them.

The tripod head would be equipped with sensors and when you're making a camera movement, they detect the intensity of the movement and send that data to the camera. Then the camera would automatically ramp up the framerate according to the speed and intensity of the movement, for example - a gentle ramp from 24 fps up to 28 or 32 fps for slow pans, or 60+ fps for more intense and fast movements. And of course, all of that - completely programmable and manually controllable (if necessary). That way you get both the 24 fps magic and also the fluid motion.

Similar solutions for cranes, etc.

Dreams, dreams... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...



could you do this in post?? ... shoot everything at high fps and then use something like twixtor to lower the fps in certain spots ...
 
Do animators want to deal with more than 24 FPS?
 
I think that the one thing that everybody excepts Lucas seems to be forgetting is the fact that it doesn't matter the framerate you shoot at if you still project at 24 fps. This last link in the chain will still create that unpleasant blurriness. So, for all those here that continue to argue the pros and cons of high framerates, it would be VERY informative to witness a test like what Lucas described. I did. And I was blown away. We shot 48 fps with an EX-1, color corrected and edited on a 48 fps timeline and from there played directly to a 1080p projector that had been tweaked to show 48 frames. It was breath taking. Everything was crisp, nitid, like the way things look on a clear day up on the mountains with a clean atmosphere. when we ran the same footage extrapolated from 48 fps to 24 fps and projected at 24 fps, it felt like somebody had banged the focus ring out of position, things didn't look more "cinematic" they just looked soft, blurry and unfocused, and the underwater parts (like Michael, I shoot a lot underwater) felt almost unusable. High framerate BOTH in acquisition and projection is MAJOR and will be an important milestone, and one we're pretty much ready to tackle in the digital world, even in film, as both cameras and projectors can do 48 fps. Higher than 48 might be better, but 48 surely felt "good enough" however ominous those words sound in this forum :-)
 
chrislancaster said:
could you do this in post?? ... shoot everything at high fps and then use something like twixtor to lower the fps in certain spots ...
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That's artificial, you don't get the same result. It's the same with camera ramps - when you make a proper ramp (and not shoot everything at 120fps for example), the footage looks different. That's why RED cameras have speed ramp capability. it gives a different (better) result.

High-fps footage has a videoish-reality feel to it and I don't think it would be adequate for all kinds of projects. For some it would be great, but not all. I don't want to see Julius Caesar stabbed in hyper-real and sterile 48fps footage.

Good old Jules needs 24fps and grain, IMHO. :yesnod:

Art is freedom,
freedom is choice,
choice is responsibility.
:blush:
 
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