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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

So 16mm is dead...

T

Thomas Wright

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The winner of the Oscar for best picture and the Cannes winner both shot on 16mm.
 
This makes the 2/3rds Scarlets all that much more exciting to contemplate.

-sc
 
good point, how will the DR of the scarlet compare to the 900R?

Is the circle of confusion comprable? to 16mm
 
I mean I love 16mm. I love 35mm. I love Red. I love what Red's done in comparison to 35mm. I find it hard to believe 2/3" will make digital look 16mm analogue. dunno if it's the curve, DR or the CoC. I dunno. if so woo hoo but the 900R didn't imoo
 
Get some Super 16mm Glass.

Set the RED to 2K mode.

You will be surprised at how much it resembles film.

David
 
I think Scarlet will be the first 2/3" digital camera to equal or surpass 16mm film in most respects: resolution, DR, color gamut, sensitivity, noise/grain. Nominal COC for 1080p is .009, Scarlet will be about .006 or less, so definitely capable of better than typical 1080p camera resolution for a 1080p or 2k finish.
I don't think any digital camera ultimately looks analog like film in any format, nor does it need to. Digital is its own medium with its own aesthetic, just newer and relatively unexplored compared to film.
For general purpose production work across many program genres, I think 16mm/2/3" is a robust and practical format that will remain popular for many years to come. It doesn't need to justify its existence vis-a-vis anything 35mm, it stands on its own terms. I agree that 2/3" 3-chip video production cameras don't quite make it to the aesthetic quality level of s16mm film. I do have high hopes for Scarlet given the increasingly outstanding performance of Red 1, especially in MX form.
 
It's the same for 35mm film... 15-stops is the figure most people toss around for motion picture color negative. But that's also 15-stops that fall on a Log gamma curve -- the contrast flattens out near white and black so there is a less abrupt cut-off point.

However, you could argue that 16mm has less latitude than 35mm even though it has the same DR if it's the same emulsion -- because grain becomes visible more quickly with extreme color-corrections.
 
Confused to this thread's title...

But there are plenty of TV shows shooting 16mm...

Um... 8mm is also alive and kicking still... And better than ever!
 
David Battistella said:
Get some Super 16mm Glass.

Set the RED to 2K mode.

You will be surprised at how much it resembles film.

David
Click to expand...

I wish!
Doing as you describe with Canon 8-64mm T2.8 zoom, 9.5, 12, 16, 25mm T1.3 MKII Distagons, and Zoomar 90mm macro, and I can't agree.

To be fair I am comparing both based on SD monitoring, but while better than most digital video, it doesn't look as good as S16mm, whether telecined to digibeta or DV.
 
Shawn Booth said:
Confused to this thread's title...

But there are plenty of TV shows shooting 16mm...
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say "plenty." In fact, at the moment, I can only think of three (One Tree Hill, Chuck, and The Middle) and there's no guarantee that they will remain on 16mm film for the next season.

For the record, Burn Notice, which was on 16mm for three seasons, is now on XDCam for the upcoming season.
 
nigelsmith said:
I wish!
Doing as you describe with Canon 8-64mm T2.8 zoom, 9.5, 12, 16, 25mm T1.3 MKII Distagons, and Zoomar 90mm macro, and I can't agree.

To be fair I am comparing both based on SD monitoring, but while better than most digital video, it doesn't look as good as S16mm, whether telecined to digibeta or DV.
Click to expand...

I'm hoping Scarlet 3k will be significantly better than R1 at 2k.
 
nigelsmith said:
I wish!
Doing as you describe with Canon 8-64mm T2.8 zoom, 9.5, 12, 16, 25mm T1.3 MKII Distagons, and Zoomar 90mm macro, and I can't agree.

To be fair I am comparing both based on SD monitoring, but while better than most digital video, it doesn't look as good as S16mm, whether telecined to digibeta or DV.
Click to expand...

The grain structure and feel seems similar. Have you tired this on the M-X sensor?

David
 
M Most said:
I wouldn't say "plenty." In fact, at the moment, I can only think of three (One Tree Hill, Chuck, and The Middle) and there's no guarantee that they will remain on 16mm film for the next season.

For the record, Burn Notice, which was on 16mm for three seasons, is now on XDCam for the upcoming season.
Click to expand...

If nothing else, the SAG contract film rate differences are causing TV producers to move to more digital acquisition.
 
David Rasberry said:
If nothing else, the SAG contract film rate differences are causing TV producers to move to more digital acquisition.
Click to expand...

That's not a current event, that was the fallout of SAG's antics of last year. The end result is that virtually all pilots made since then have and will be shot on digital formats, and a number of "legacy" shows changed mediums as well. It is now a virtual certainty that the use of film for television series origination, other than in very rare cases, is going to be somewhat nonexistent going forward.
 
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