Simple Post Production Options for RED ONE

[TedRed]

I started creating this as a very simple overview for the various post production options projects can take advantage of when working with RED footage – this is the first draft.

Producers, Directors, The various executives and semi-technical production and post production personal are reaching out to us at RED on a constant basis to get a basic understanding of the tools and processes required, so hopefully this can help as a resource those shooting and Posting RED can direct those people to as a starting point.

I hope this will spur some discussion both here and offline that can help the various parts of the industry get the information they need to work most efficiently and create the best results from the RED for any type of project they may be working on.


Simple Post Production Options for RED ONE

Start with R3D's - backed up so there are at least 2 copies of the RAW REDCODE Media

Use the tools Available by RED (RedRushes, Red Alert, REDCINE, RedLine) to generate appropriate files for offline editing, broadcast HD editing (hybrid offline/online using 1 set of files) and finishing/color grading media for final delivery.



- Apple FCP & Color Workflow simple overview: Edit natively with QT pointers to the R3D files or with rendered ProRes media in FCP 6.0.5 / Finishing & Final Color Grading Natively with REDCODE RAW files or with Rendered ProRes media in Apple Color

- Adobe CS4 Workflow simple overview: Edit natively with R3D files in Premiere Pro 4.0.1 / Finish Natively or with rendered online media in After Effects 9.0.1

- Avid Media Composer and DS Workflow simple overview: Edit with DNX QT or native DNX MXF media in Media Composer / Finish Natively or with rendered online media in Avid DS





Post Production Pathway #1:
All Desktop, All Apple hardware and FCP Studio 2 workflow:

Start with Apple FCP 6.0.5 with the RED FCP Studio 2 Installer package loaded from the red.com/support website

Drag and Drop the _M proxies (1k resolution) for a no render, instant offline editing workflow

or

Render in RedRushes or the Log and Transfer interface directly in FCP 6 to ProRes 422 media in either 2k or 1080p from the 4k REDCODE media - and edit offline or online/color correct in Apple Color for Broadcast quality finishing directly from those files.

or

Use the Native R3D QuickTime wrapped RED workflow, by ingesting using the Log and Transfer interface directly in FCP 6 using the native setting preference. Then offline with these QT wrapped REDCODE files in 2k and do final Color Correction by sending the FCP project over to Apple Color, accessing the full bit depth and dynamic range of the original R3D files. Send the color corrected project back to FCP for final output.



Post Production Pathway #2:
Adobe CS4 (Premiere Pro 4.0.1) All Desktop PC or Mac hardware workflow:

Start with Premiere Pro 4.0.1 with the RED Adobe CS4 Installer package loaded from the red.com/support website

Natively Import (Drag and Drop) R3D files into Premiere Pro, set up the project resolution based on the power of your computing hardware and edit offline in either 1/2k, 1k or 2k resolution from the 4k native R3D files

or

Render in RedRushes (Intel Mac platform only) or directly in the Premiere Pro interface to MJPEG files at 1080p or 2k and use those files to do offline editing (and in some cases online editing) and finishing

then

Send Premiere Pro Project to After Effects 9.0.1, reset project parameters to 2k or 4k for grading and finishing, and create final deliverables for TV or Theatrical Finish



Post Production Pathway #3:
Avid All Desktop PC and/or Mac hardware workflow:

Start with Avid Media Composer or Symphony

Generate DNX HD QuickTime Movies using RED Rushes and the associated ALE file to send that media into the appropriate Avid project bin with the proper clip information, Or generate Native MXF files from the R3D media using MetaFuse for editing.

Edit offline or online in Media Composer or Symphony, depending on the quality of the DNX HD media you've created.

Send Composer project to Avid DS for finishing and color grading, work with the Native R3Ds and Render completed project for delivery, or work with DS Online Media formats, rendering the edited project footage before finishing in DS.


All Roads Lead to the Finish:

There are a number of DI solutions that support RED files natively, and there are likely more that I have not mentioned here that have a native support pathway for R3D files, and many companies are actively working on their integration.

Of note:

Assimilate Scratch has been working with RED native files since the initial launch of the RED camera (along with Apple) for Color Grading and Finishing, and have a number of viable workflows for tapeless end to end, as well as more traditional tape based layoffs from RED files to HD tape for editing ingest and HD finishing.

DI, Color Grading, FX / Compositing & Finishing Systems that are currently working with RED files natively (not a complete list):

Quantel
Digital Vision
Avid
AutoDesk
BaseLight
DaVinci
Nuke
Digital Fusion

Depending on your preference of tool, these companies (and others that people can mention as this thread develops) have systems that have robust support for working directly with R3D files, as well as rendered DPX files (typically created as RedLog or PD685 Log files) that fit well within the comfort zone of these tools for grading and finishing. A number of these systems also have the ability to bring in EDL's XML's and AAF's to conform from the offline edit to an HD, 2k, or 4k finish.


The ever changing nature of Computing Technology:

The processing and prepping of files for editorial and finishing from the REDCODE RAW native footage is computer based, and takes advantage of the ever increasing power of today's processors. Many of the RED shooting formats can be played back at various broadcast quality resolutions in Real Time on today's fastest machines,

In addition, creating finishing files for a HD, 2k or 4k finish are becoming more efficient all the time, and companies from individual one system owners, to small boutiques, to medium sized post companies, to the largest post companies in the world are servicing clients RED jobs of all scope. One of the significant advantages to working with RED files is it's truly scalable nature, from one single computer to a full on Render Farm for quick turnaround jobs with multiple deliverables.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Nicely summed up, Ted. I think this deserves a sticky.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Thanks Ted.

Finally.

Great.

 

[Corrado Silveri]

Thanks Ted, Sticky!
(I'm not disappeared...)

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

subscribed to find it easily in case it isn't stickied, but it would be great it it were and it was updated as things develop

Thanks Ted

 

[Dan Duran]

One can always contact me for any workflow support at:

D U R A N a t R E D d o t C O M

 

[TedRed]

Whew.. thats good news that early feedback on this is positive (I was worried people would be jumping all over me for things I missed, forgot, and some of the other options I didn't mention here, like the 3rd party software options for viewing files, prepping files for finishing if you are using REDCINE as a grading and finishing tool, etc.)

If it helps clear the air for people wanting to shoot RED that have heard through the grapevine how great the camera is, but that the post pathways are not well evolved, then it will have done it's job.

If the community working with RED has things of value to add, success stories on various levels using the various post options, etc. I think that would all be of value for people doing RED projects and wanting to learn more without having to dive too deep into the hardcore tech side of post.

 

[Johnny St.Ours]

If the community working with RED has things of value to add, success stories on various levels using the various post options, etc. I think that would all be of value for people doing RED projects and wanting to learn more without having to dive too deep into the hardcore tech side of post.

When people ask me (or in many cases, just TELL me, even though they've never done anything with a RED) about all the supposed post problems, I always proudly proclaim that this is the easiest, fastest, and most forgiving post process I've ever come across that is computer based and has some flexibility. (I do like chopping and taping 16mm- but not exactly forgiving).

It took me some time of trial and error, but using these M and H files in FCP... man they blow away tape based crap. You open up Red Alert in the middle of your process and just change your mind about the Kelvin, the ISO, and then "make Quicktimes" and FCP just changes. It's f**ckin magic! It's what computers working with computer brained cameras should be doing.

Screw P2, to hell with TAPE. I'd shoot film and edit film if I had 20 times my current budgets, but Red and my little MacBook make some real Movie Magic.

 

[Ryota Kurata]

Thanks, Ted-san!
I will introduce this thread to people interested in RED in Japan.
Thank you.

 

[Trevor Meier]

I've been going gangbusters in Vancouver helping shows with their post flow (through Inspired Cinema and independently) since January last year. It's really nice to see how well the RED toolset has matured. There are viable, fast workflows available for every level of show - from independent Africa docs to TV series to low, mid and high-budget features.

Need fast turnaround?
Need five sets of dailies?
Need tape-based dailies?
Need an on-set colourist?
Need to do it on the cheap with a laptop?
Need to satisfy insurance & bonding companies?

The answer to all of these is yes. It works well, it works now, and it's flexible as hell. The hardest part is educating people on their choices... but I'm ok with that. I enjoy the conversation - "How can the RED and the flow of footage to the people who need it break down barriers and limitations?" The answers always end up being something enabling rather than limiting. And the quality of the image speaks for itself.

While many good options exist, there is room for improvement, especially in the medium-budget dailies space. I'm excited to see tools like the BLT, Clipfinder and the new Mac Pro's come to market. Now I have what I need to build real-time 2K graded dailies for almost any budget.

Thanks for the post Ted! Great way to summarize it all in one place...

 

[Sam Roberts]

Render in RedRushes or the Log and Transfer interface directly in FCP 6 to ProRes 422 media in either 2k or 1080p from the 4k REDCODE media - and edit offline or online/color correct in Apple Color for Broadcast quality finishing directly from those files.

I didn't think it was possible to resize 4 or 2k R3D's in Log and Transfer. I thought L&T just transcoded to Prores the size you started with.

If this is possible it would allow me to choose in and out points (with audio reference) to subclip before transcoding- something you can't do with REDrushes, REDAlert or Clipfinder.

Could someone explain how this is done?

 

[Sam Roberts]

I take it back...CLIPFINDER CAN do it (subclip) Amazing program.

I just got a clarification on TedRed's post. Only L&T's ability to cut the size the 4KHD R3D (newer builds) means that you can only make a 1080 Prores if you start with a 4KHD original. If you shoot 2k 2048X1152 and transcode to Prores what you end up with is a 2048X1152 prores file....there is no resizing. The O.P. wasn't clear on this.

Thanks to Russell over at Cow.

 

[Lucas Wilson]

... While many good options exist, there is room for improvement, especially in the medium-budget dailies space. I'm excited to see tools like the BLT, Clipfinder and the new Mac Pro's come to market. Now I have what I need to build real-time 2K graded dailies for almost any budget.

Hey Trevor,

I've heard good things about the RED show recently via my friends at Vidcom. Don't know if you were aware, but there are currently several SCRATCH systems in Vancouver cranking through RED work... including systems at Technicolor, Deluxe, and CIS (Deluxe.) Rainmaker has 5 systems, but they are not really an outward-facing shop.

I've been up there a lot recently... it's encouraging to see the interest and amount of RED work in the market!

Best,

Lucas
------
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

 

[David Mutchler]

Any info from you is good info.

 

[Perry Ho]

Thanks TED, it really help a lot.

Cheers

Perry Ho
Dop - Mainland China

 

[Dan Hudgins]

Getting real...

Getting real...

I'm putting some finishing touches on some new features that should be of interest to people who want to do high quality post at lowish cost.

My system is a becoming a real option for "straight" filmmaking, and works nicely with the 4K/2K RED ONE footage I have tried with it.

Anyone who has R3D files they can share that have close up LIP SYNC footage with a slate clap it would be of a help in my "Alpha Testing" to make sure that my sync sound features are working as they should with TIF and WAV files extracted from R3D, that is I need R3D with embeded audio, or R3D files and a WAV file that was recorded sync at the time of shooting for sync sound. I can then load in several sets of shots (magazines of takes, i.e. serial shots with sync sound) and extract the takes and parts of takes to see if the new extract feature is working well with RED ONE footage.

So if you have some sync sound or lip sync R3D you can share for my testing please PM me with a URL etc where I can download the files, thank you.

 

[Cail Young]

I'm excited to see tools like the BLT

That reminds me... it's lunchtime.

In all seriousness, what is that?

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Its a whole new sandwich

Its a whole new sandwich

The BLT is the BaseLight Transfer system, there's a thread on it you should be able find with a search. The skinny is that it offers a data centric front end for R3D files that sounds like a good match for a number of Red shops who need more speed (particularly for dailies) and easy entry to traditional color correction and finishing platforms like BaseLight. If the free RED apps and the desktop environment are inappropriate for your workload/deadlines/client comfort zone then tools like ScratchCine and the BLT might be for you.

As Ted noted not only are the newer iterations of the RED tools now playing much nicer with common desktop systems and popular NLEs, the release of the SDK (even with its limitations) has brought a number of the big boys on board with the Rebellion (I will ignore the kicking and screaming if you will :bleh: ).

My point is that a lot of the negative talk about posting RedOne footage is old news. Theses days, IMHO, most of the arrows are shot by post houses trying to protect their turf and ROI.

 

[Jason Sinclair]

. Theses days, IMHO, most of the arrows are shot by post houses trying to protect their turf and ROI.

IMHO that was always the case from the start...

 

[Chris Rupert]

Use the Native R3D QuickTime wrapped RED workflow, by ingesting using the Log and Transfer interface directly in FCP 6 using the native setting preference. Then offline with these QT wrapped REDCODE files in 2k and do final Color Correction by sending the FCP project over to Apple Color, accessing the full bit depth and dynamic range of the original R3D files. Send the color corrected project back to FCP for final output.

This is the process I have been playing with and makes the most sense to, you get to edit offline in FCP but you get all the color/exposure latitude of the raw R3D file once you do your color work in Apple COLOR.

But the editing w/ QuickTime wrapped Red files is still slower than I would like. I'm editing on an Dual Intel tower w/ 14GB of Ram so it should be able to play smooth, but It still chokes up even w/ my sequence set to "Unlimted RT"

I would like to try and find a way to edit with the M Proxy file the camera generates but I can't figure out how to Batch Reconnect the files with the original R3D files so that I can do my Color on the raw files. So here is the question: Can this only be done with a 3rd party software like Crimson or does FCP provide a way with EDL function?

(I'm new to working with R3D files or editing offline so forgive me if I don't ask things right)

Thanks