significant color differences

[jeffhedberg]

I am importing red footage in to the Avid for editing.
I have done 2 different workflows and the visual results are different enough that it has made me wonder if I am doing this properly.

If I open up a proxy quicktime file. It has a look to it that I am considering the 'normal' look.
I use metacheater - create an .ale, import to Avid, then batch import the matching _P.mov file.
The footage in the Avid is consistent with the quicktime's look.


However, if I use RedRushes to open the red files, create the .ale, and then re-wrap the files to AvidDNxHD MXF files, and fast import these files in to the avid - the footage looks very orange. (too warm)
If I open the .mov file that has been re-wrapped by RedRushes it also has this same warm look.

In RedRushes I have set the 'look' to Camera, 'color space' to Look Source and 'gamma space' to Look Source.


I have poked around in the red alert forum, and have confirmed that there is no .rsx file anywhere in the red footage that was delivered to me.

I have numerous folders each with a .r3d file and 4 quicktime movies, ending with _F, _H, _M, _P ... and that is it for the contents of the folder.



My question is which way should I be doing this import in to the avid to get the expected colors? Using meta cheater where I get footage that looks like the proxy quicktime videos, or through RedRushes where it comes out more warm?
I do not know what version of camera firmware this was shot with.


Thank you,
Jeff

 

[Stephen Strangways]

There is new Color Science that has significant differences in white balance.

The new Color Science is present in:

*RED ALERT! & REDLINE & REDRUSHES (V20.0.1)
*RED ALERT! & REDLINE & REDRUSHES (V20.1.2)
*RED ALERT! & REDLINE & REDRUSHES (V20.1.6)
*BETA RED ALERT! & REDLINE & REDRUSHES (V20.1.8)
*BETA RED ALERT! & REDLINE & REDRUSHES (V21.0.0)

*REDCINE V20.0.0 (BETA)

*REDCODE QUICKTIME CODEC (V3.9.0) (and maybe also V3.8.0 but I'm not sure)

So make sure all your RED software is up to date!

The new Color Science is not yet incorporated into Final Cut, Premiere, or Vegas when they are working on the R3D files natively, but if you have the latest Quicktime Codec, and are editing Quicktime proxies, those should show the new Color Science.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=33834

 

[jeffhedberg]

After reading the linked thread (thank you for that!) -- I am concluding that the warmer look is the correct look and the cooler (more blue) looking footage that I am seeing in the quicktime proxies is, in fact, incorrect.
This is because the new "Color Science" is not recognized in the quicktime codec.

So, I should use the option to re-wrap red footage to MXF rather than import proxy footage into Avid.

Does this sound correct?

Thank you again.
Jeff

 

[Stephen Strangways]

Well, I'm not sure it's about being correct or not... it's more old vs. new Color Science being mixed together because of the software you have installed.

My experience was this:
Shooting with the camera on Build 18 (old Color Science) and processing everything in the old Color Science software worked perfectly.

Processing that footage with the new Color Science software meant that the white balance we set in-camera was off, because the new Color Science interprets white balance differently. I had to change the white balance in all of the shots, which I did in Red Alert!

Now, with Build 20, the new Color Science is in the camera, so the white balance we set in-camera matches the new Color Science in the new software.

I don't do anything with wrapping footage for Final Cut, and I last used Avid 13 years ago, so I can't answer your specific question very well.

My current workflow is to render everything out of Red Alert!, because you can't get the new Color Science (which I quite like) by using Proxies in Avid and Final Cut, or the native R3D files in Vegas or Color.

I use Clipfinder to go through all the shots and do a basic color correction in Red Alert!, render all the good takes overnight to 1/4 res 720p Quicktime ProRes 422 files, and edit with those.

Then, I export an XML of the edit, load it up in Clipfinder, do a few final tweaks in Red Alert! before rendering out full res Quicktimes in whatever format I am finishing in. Those go back into Final Cut, and then sent to Color for final grading and correction using the secondaries and vignettes and such.

If you don't mind the old Color Science (which is most noticeably an improvement on shots that are any combination of low-light, high-iso, tungsten, and/or containing skin tones) then do whatever MXF wrapping or proxy importing workflow you like, but make things easier on yourself by consistently using software with the old Color Science for Red Alert! and the Quicktime Codec.

I hope that helps, and is not terribly confusing.

 

[Stephen Strangways]

One factoid I am taking for granted:

Whether you shoot on Build 18 (old Color Science) or Build 20 (new Color Science) your raw files are still the same.

You can shoot on Build 18 or earlier and process the R3Ds with the new Color Science software without any problem at all. The reverse is also true. It's one of the advantages of shooting raw.

The one thing that does make a difference is that if you were shooting Build 18, you were monitoring (and setting your white balance) with the old Color Science. So, if you process with the new Color Science software, it won't the look the same as it did during the shoot, so you'll need to set a new white balance. The reverse is also true.