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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Sigma Cinema Lenses

Nicholaus James said:
Any new news or leaks on the upcoming primes? I'm hoping these don't come in more than $3500 each, and hopefully there's some package savings by purchasing as a set. Still waiting anxiously as NAB is right around the corner.
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I'm hoping they come in under 3k honestly.
 
Jarek Zabczynski said:
I'm hoping they come in under 3k honestly.
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Even better, but I'm being a little realistic with the market. The Xeens come in around $2500 each. I fee the Sigmas are going to be a quality above those. And with the Tokinas at $5K each, I feel the Siggs at $3.5K might be the sweet spot in the market.

I could always go for less, but guessing on what's going on in the market.

Hope they release pricing soon!

And an ETA when that 14mm and the 135mm will be thrown in.
My guess is that any future ART lenses from this point on that are announced will be released simultaneously in both photo and cine version. I could be way off, but my gut tells me other wise.
 
Hoping they'll dramatically improve the build quality if the price will be around $3500...

honestly mechanics weren't that great on the pre-production samples I had my hands on...
 
I just don't see how they can been anywhere around the price of the zooms which run about $4k a piece.

I think the Xeens are WAY overpriced for $500 glass. Xeens should be $1500 each tops.

At $3k-$5k are they really trying to compete with Canon, Zeiss CP2 and Xenons? Might as well stick with one of those if that's the case.

I think Tokina is insane for what they want to charge.
 
Jarek Zabczynski said:
I just don't see how they can been anywhere around the price of the zooms which run about $4k a piece.

I think the Xeens are WAY overpriced for $500 glass. Xeens should be $1500 each tops.

At $3k-$5k are they really trying to compete with Canon, Zeiss CP2 and Xenons? Might as well stick with one of those if that's the case.

I think Tokina is insane for what they want to charge.
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If the breathing is minimal, then the Sigma primes will be the best glass in that range. My Canon CN-Es doesn't come close to the beauty of my 35mm ART still prime, it's on another level, closer to the Zeiss Otus but for a fraction of the cost. The only thing that can screw up the Sigmas would be too much breathing since the Zooms got some criticism that they breathe worse than almost any other zoom lens.
 
Jarek Zabczynski said:
At $3k-$5k are they really trying to compete with Canon, Zeiss CP2 and Xenons? Might as well stick with one of those if that's the case.
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LOL! Not even the same ballpark in optical quality. SIGMA Cine Primes stand up (and surpass a few) lenses that are 2 to 2.5X more per lens (based on the expected price I was asked not to repeat)


Jarek Zabczynski said:
I think Tokina is insane for what they want to charge.
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Why? Based on the price of still lenses? Good cine mechanics cost way more than most optic elements. Just getting the markings on super sharp optics - which can vary by fractions of millimeters slightly from lens to lens - marked correctly is very slow and expensive.

If you don't really care about racking focus or accurate lens markings ... well ... you can save a fortune and just use EF still lenses.

SIGMA Cine lenses are going to be a huge disruptor in the prime lens space. They are NOT "budget" optics.
 
Any East Coast peeps wanna kick the tires on the new 18-35 and 50-100 Cine versions - just drop by our CSNY showroom at OFFHOLLYWOOD in Brooklyn. Lots of new goodies showing up in our showroom all the time as we head towards NAB. Shoot your own tests in our facility, etc.
 
My prediction is that the primes ultimately will not succeed. They are simply too big.
80mm front and 1kg (2lbs) are the magic numbers.
Super Speeds and K35s prove it with their ridiculous market values.
Hype may help but won't change the basics.....
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
Yeah ... those silly Master Primes sure failed, right?

Master Prime T1.3 - 21 mm - 114 mm front - 5.3 lbs

SIGMA Cine Prime T1.5 - 20mm - 95mm front - 3.1 lbs
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Master primes were released 20 years ago or so when there was nothing like it on the market, the camera setups weighted 30lbs+ and the camera bodies cost quarter of a million dollars.
Just from the most recent:
Unique optics, Sony cine alta primes
Schneider Xenars, and yes RPPs- where are they now? ;-)
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
Master primes were released 20 years ago or so when there was nothing like it on the market, the camera setps weighted 30lbs+ and the camera bodies cost quarter of a million dollars.
Just from the most recent:
Unique optics, Sony cine alta primes
Schneider Xenars, and yes RPPs- where are they now? ;-)
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Master Primes are on a majority of the major episodic long form television shows shooting in NYC right now. Every one of those shows could shoot on SuperSpeeds or whatever smaller, lighter lens they want. But they did not get your memo.
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
Master Primes are on a majority of the major episodic long form television shows shooting in NYC right now. Every one of those shows could shoot on SuperSpeeds or whatever smaller, lighter lens they want. But they did not get your memo.
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I'm used to that- always ahead of the curve ;-) But don't worry, eventually they all get it ....
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
I'm used to that- always ahead of the curve ;-) But don't worry, eventually they all get it ....
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I know what that feels like. I try to see the curve but it's a distant memory.

Back on topic - I can assure you that more of them will be shooting on SIGMA Cine primes than SuperSpeeds and K35s. By a mile.

Sigma Art series still lenses have a solid respect and familiarity among many top cinematographers who know them well.

So anyway ... you and I totally disagree. All good. Time will reveal all.
 
We all know what RED wants to do- electronic drive by wire lenses. That's ahead of the curve. That's also what Sigma will do next after their cine line lenses will run their course. And it wont be that long IMO. Oh yes- we've been doing electronic lens control for three years now- ahead of the curve? I actually have some lens sketches I presented to Red Circa 2008....
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
Oh yes- we've been doing electronic lens control for three years now- ahead of the curve? I actually have some lens sketches I presented to Red Circa 2008....
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I prefer good glass to internal motors. If we can get both, great, but non have made them so far. As for using internal focus pulling on still lenses, it was exciting news when it came out, but it's not on par with smooth focus pulling of regular mechanical and remote gear-headed FFs. I've yet to be actually impressed by internal motors for lenses, so I'm still waiting for a set of glass that's both cheap as the Sigmas, has great glass quality without notable drawbacks like breathing and super-softness at wide open while having internal smooth focus-motors for remote pulling. As of now, there's nothing out there like that.

I like my CN-Es, but they are a bit too "normal". They give a good image, but not much more than that. The Sigmas on the other hand, my 35mm ART still lens gives an exceptional image. Having a set of lenses with the same glass quality and with cine-grade mechanics and features at a cheaper price than the CN-Es is mind blowing and far more important and disruptive than people think. The biggest question though, is how the market of high end lenses will respond.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
The biggest question though, is how the market of high end lenses will respond.
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There is no real competitor to Master Anamorphics for example.

When things get disrupted - the HIGH END and LOW END can usually hold their ground - the MIDDLE is what falls away first .... like this - http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/03/10/fujinon-drop-10000us-off-their-cabrio-4k-pl-compact-lenses/

I think SUMMICRONS are gonna take a hit - but they do ship significantly more focal lengths than SIGMA is launching with.
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
There is no real competitor to Master Anamorphics for example.

When things get disrupted - the HIGH END and LOW END can usually hold their ground - the MIDDLE is what falls away first .... like this - http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/03/10/fujinon-drop-10000us-off-their-cabrio-4k-pl-compact-lenses/

I think SUMMICRONS are gonna take a hit - but they do ship significantly more focal lengths than SIGMA is launching with.
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Its very interesting I agree. I own a full set of the Sigma Still primes and they are very nice for the cost. I am curious to see what a set of Leica M lux primes would do on the new helium sensor. I am still confused with which of the "1.4" Leica M will fit on the red M mount. You can pick up a 2nd hand 6 lens M set for under 30. If they all fit on the helium without obstruction, that seems like the best optical set before you begin talking master primes.
 
andrew wehde said:
. I am still confused with which of the "1.4" Leica M will fit on the red M mount. You can pick up a 2nd hand 6 lens M set for under 30. If they all fit on the helium without obstruction, that seems like the best optical set before you begin talking master primes.
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The two widest ones hit the OLPF chassis (not the actual OLPF glass).
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
There is no real competitor to Master Anamorphics for example.
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After talking to the guys at Celere, it's clear that the way lenses are made nowadays differs from a couple of years ago. It's easier and less expensive to hit the market and for already established lens manufacturers it's much easier. So it might just be a matter of time before we see affordable mid range anamorphics that might rival the high ends. I like the look of the new Master Anamorphics, but I felt that they went into the same direction as my CN-Es; i.e they lack a certain soul. The images are perfect anamorphic images, but then I think the format looses it's point. If they look rather perfect, why even use anamorphics since it's improving 35mm film more than digital sensors? It feels like it's better to use somewhat older anamorphics with digital sensors to get the glass characteristics that increase the organic feeling to it rather than almost perfect anamorphics which almost looks as clean as a regular spherical with a 2.35:1 crop. So, people who agree on this would benefit from anamorphics with more glass character than perfect glass, just like HS Celere isn't perfect glass but character-glass.

I've always had a bit of a love/hate relationship with anamorphics. They look great, but I feel it's more nostalgia than anything else. Lens flares and bokeh of the past instead of modern clean looking images. There's a time and purpose for anything, but I think they're overused through pure nostalgia rather than story-telling perspective. - side note.
 
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