SI-2K vs. SCARLET

[Michael Olsen]

Similar to the Slumdog situation...

From what I've read...the SI-2K in Sherlock Holmes was essentially used exclusively for some of the running and action sequences (along with Phantom) as a helmet or body rig cam. Principle photography was 35mm.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

I just became aware of the existence of the SI-2K Digital Cinema Camera. I talked to one of my best friends, who's an Academy Award winning DP, and he just worked on a feature film using this camera. He says they were all very happy with the results. It was also used to film most of Slum Dog Millionaire, the latest Sherlock Holmes, and others.

I realize it is 2K as opposed to Scarlet's 3K sensor, but it looks to me, by what I've learned so far, that it may be a better choice for "television production" than the up-coming, soon-to-be-hopefully-released interchangeable lens Scarlet.

I'd be very interested in your opinions and/or anyone's experiences in using the SI-2K Camera.

Thanks.

As stated only parts were filmed with the SI, and it I could see the altasens sensor look to it. There are parts like the game show, that are not moving where it was used. They talk about it on the bluray features.

I have been stung by this in times past, anybody want to buy a copy of what was it, Jumpers, got it to examine the footage only to find it was virtually seconds of virtually the worse footage (District 9 was much better on BD).

 

[Wayne Morellini]

While I haven't used the SI-2K, I am very sceptical of it after its poor showing on Slumdog. I found the noise unpleasant and distracting...

The problem with the SI, was that the altasens was the best sensor for the day, but the sensor industry has advanced fantastically, and I do not know where things are at now. Unless altasnes has or will come out with something better, they will need to find a better sensor elsewhere to compete.

i did shoot a lot with the SI-2k the last 6 months.
we gave her the name SI-Shit-K. We used the slumdog back pack variation.

the software is windows based and we had a virus...? the AC didnt went to porn sites he told us.

when you turn on a LUT (rec 709) the cam didnt record.
we had the same rental house which rented the cams to slumdog.
but this cam so fucking stressed me...didnt work 3-5 hrs without a obvious reason sometimes, then suddenly it worked.

it was a single cam shoot....and one day we had 3 Si-2k cams as back up cams, still none of them really worked flawlessly.

you know what every single day happened?
i had my RED in the car...and it was like:
we need the RED!

(as information, it was a handheld shoot with 20 minute - 30 min. takes, we decided to use the SI2K because the RED can get really heavy fully loaded, we had 10-12 hour shooting days....)

the si2k didnt need as much light as the RED M and it was much more lighter (not heavy). beeing lighter was the main factor
I wish we had epic.

NEVER AGAIN SI2K.


guess everybody has different experiences though.
edit: i forgot...pictures look lovely from that cam

Windows PC, that does not surprise me, though these issues can be overcome. There was to be a lowcost portable cineform recorder (I think from cineform), but I have not heard of that for years. Over time the PC solutions have gotten more and more portable, and are low cost compared to the camera head to upgrade, so this is another thing to look into.

I know people at Si and cineform through the old digital cinema camera projects at dvinfo years ago. I used to have people emailing me for advice on what to do. These projects inspired SI and Red. I could have licensed cineform for my own camera design (which now seems like a viable option compared to h264 for better pixel accuracy). Si and Drake platforms came out of this and were produced by people in the list, and it was very disappointing that they priced it the level they did, instead of the $5K, or even $10K camera we were once hoping for. There was just not much volume at that price, compared to the, then, starved $10K and under market. As predicted, a 4K competitor came in at similar price, and now lower cost options.

People used to 'bar humbug' me in the amateurish group when I pointed out that FPGA was too ambitious and complex (requiring good funding, ask Jim). Engineers were the only people that listened, and the only people in the group to produce successful working cameras. But sufficient time has past to produce lower priced and FPGA solutions, which is what is needed now along with higher end ones. So, yes scarlet, but SI has sufficient room for a new round. A $2K cineform altasens camera would have been a wonderful thing, but as they are not a big mass produced consumer electronics company I would not expect to see one for less then $5K if they wanted to (though $3K would be possible if properly setup and funded for it like a mass produced company). If the cineform portable recorder technology were available, it would an advantage.

On the other hand, if nothing else where coming the digital cinema side would be a great purchase for a major camera manufacturer seeking to get into the digital cinema/pro quality camera market, instead of creating the expertise and mind share themselves, even Kodak, or are they already occupied. Good luck to them.

 

[randywedick]

Hi all,

We have been selling the SI2K's here at Band Pro for quite a while. Recently, the demand has gone way up due to the ability to create a small handheld 3D rig with 2 heads. The 3D capture software is quite nice as well.

When combined with a rig like an ET Neutron, and a streamlined purpose built recorder like a 1Beyond Mini or a Cinedeck you have a nice compact, self-contained 3D system that is hand-holdable & un-tethered, which sets it apart from the other professional rigs out there.

I am very excited with the prospect of future cameras like everyone here, but this is a product that is shipping & shooting today.

I will refrain from excessive cheer-leading about non-Red cameras on this website.

If you would like to know more, please contact me off-list.

Best,

Randy Wedick
Technical Consultant
Band Pro Film & Digital
randy.wedick@bandpro.com

PS Slumdog was about 65% SI2K, 1 or 2 shots on a 5Dmk2, and the rest 35mm. 35mm was chosen for night exteriors and also for the unsupervised portion of the 2nd unit, which was mostly a local crew with film-only experience.

 

[craigjkharris]

The SI2K is a great camera!
I was just in a presentation with Iridas at Element Technica today and watched some great 3D footage shot with the 2K. Very nice image, great size and only getting better.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

I am curious though, on the other side, the sensor they were testing for the SI was said to be able to achieve something like 96db S/N ratio through some particular setup that a skilled DP could probably take advantage of. This is probably far beyond what mysterium X is doing. In reality, are there sometimes any advantage to using the SI sensor in different situations?

 

[Stuart English]

SI s/n

SI s/n

on the other side, the sensor they were testing for the SI was said to be able to achieve something like 96db S/N ratio

I think you need to double check that number....

 

[jbeale]

...something like 96db S/N ratio...

That would be a mathematically perfect 16-bit ADC with no noise (in a real system, it would probably have to be at least 18 bits). AFAIK, there is no such video or cine cameras currently made for any price. (There are camera systems with 16 or more bits but I believe they do not achieve all the S/N theoretically possible at that bit depth.)

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

Hence my statement.

One of the biggest problems we now face is when a project is shot on multiple formats, but generates enough publicity for one of them that the impression is left that the entire project was on that one format. At that point, people form opinions based on that mistaken belief. That's how people like the previous poster come to believe things like "Slumdog Millionaire was shot on SI2K" when only parts of it were, or "Entourage was shot on Red" because they used an Epic prototype in a scene as a prop. One has to be careful when one draws conclusions these days.

The part of the movie that shows the ugliest noise is from a flashback sequence.

I remember it clearly!

However, I didn't see that getting people off the story. It's just us, tech buffs that mind way too much about it.

 

[Eren Ozkural]

I remember balking at the sight of horrible blue noise in some night exterior shots of people in the slums watching the TV show near the end. I always assumed this was an Si2K shot because the noise seemed too structured to be film but I could very well be wrong.

Then again I remember watching Transformers in the cinema and the scene with John Voight walking around the pentagon(?) corridors was chock full of blue grain. I haven't seen this in the DVD version so I can only assume it was a poor release print.

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

Eren, if it was a packed street it could've been the 5D.

I remember they weren't able to use a regular video camera in the crowded streets without creating a big fuzz, so the lower profile of the DSLR helped them there.