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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

shutter angle test

M

Marc Rochon

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https://www.dropbox.com/s/oi7ia65emlfdyen/A006_C012_0112ZH.0000483F.R3D?dl=0 180 Degree
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t4jrbddsag7sp76/A006_C013_0112B1.0000200F.R3D?dl=0 90 Degree
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f1d448nnvc8yvku/A006_C014_011284.0000170F.R3D?dl=0 360 Degree

Check this out. The only change in these images is the shutter angle. The 360 came out so nice like butter. I suppose that makes sense as I let more like hit the sensor but adding more motion blur which looked fine. Any thoughts on shutter angle? As a base it should normally be 180 but if you need some more light it seems like a nice option to take it up more?

-Marc
 
Without looking at your examples, 360 degree shutter at 24/25/30 fps tends to have too much motion blur for typical drama shooting except for locked off or slow moving shots with nothing moving much in frame. But if you have those conditions, then it's a perfectly usable technique to get another stop of light exposure.
 
All depends on your motion toleration. With actors, etc, it will not seem, "natural" in the sense of what we are used to and what most things are shot at. FOr landscapes and slow moving stuff, very normal. Also reducing to 12fps will get more light as well in some low light situations.

Why 59.94 timebase? Making the camera less sensitive. You are loosing light that way you know. Try a 23.98 timebase for better sensitivity.

Battistella
 
yah I was trying out slow mo with the 59.94. I'm finding if you give this sensor light it will create remarkable images. Lower light you just have to dial it in but still fantastic footage. I haven't tried the new OLPF yet for low light but that will probably be awesome

-Marc
 
Your approach to slomotion on red is completely incorrect.

Throw out your 60p DSLR mentality when it comes to slomotion. Slow motion on red works exactly like film.

I wrote about it here:

https://library.creativecow.net/battistella_david/Film-Style-Slow-Motion/1

if you do slomotion in any other way you are heading for a world of pain. Red slomotion is painless and simple compared to dslrs, because it works exactly like a film camera.

battistella
 
So David if I'm understanding you correctly your saying I should change the Sensor Frame Rate? Project time base? How would you set up to do slow mo? I would think to leave the project time base at 23.98 (the playback speed) and change the sensor frame rate to 48 or 60 or higher. In my mind the sensor is recording a lot more frames and I'm just playing them back at 23.98.

How do you set it up?

-Marc
 
Frame rate is one thing. TIMEBASE is another. Think of Red is a film camera not a video camera. It is however capable of video framerates.

RED

set you project TIMEBASE for 23.98 (North America) 24 (universal) or 25 (europe) 59.94 only on specific request.

I will use TIMEBASE 24 as an example but in north America i'd consider 23.98.

with TIMEBASE set to 24

shoot 24 FPS FRAMERATE (camera indicates SYNC on the display) with 180 degree shutter and film style motion blur for live action

shoot 4, 8, 12, 18 48, 60, 72 or 96 in 6K or higher speed in lower resolutions (camera indicates varispeed on the display) also opens up a lot of in camera ramping capability.


Thats it, that is how I am set up.



many folks who have shot dslr or video cameras do this

set 60p or 59.94 TIMEBASE and shoot 60p

Later interpolate/interpret the footage from a 59.94 to 23.98 in a 23.98 timeline. It's an extra step you do not need.

Disadvantages.
1. You have to interpolate
2. Camera is 1/3 of a stop less sensitive at 59.94 (29.97)
3. Max framerates are lower.
4. Post nightmare mixing framerates.

59.94 is there for broadcast video environments or if you are matching the RED with ten other video only cameras that don't shoot at 23.98 progressively as the RED does. Most of those 59.94 cameras shoot interlaced video. The RED only captures progressive frames just like a film camera. It operates like a film camera with video possibilities.

I have seen seen this slomotion mistake so many times. It just creates a post nightmare for yourself or for clients.
 
basically your saying use even numbers and not 59.94. I was just doing a quick test in my original post. In the future I'll set my camera to a true 24fps time base and 60fps record rate
 
No. He said "… set your project TIMEBASE for 23.98 (North America) 24 (universal) or 25 (europe). 59.94 only on specific request."

Your RECORD framerate can be anything the camera is capable of.
 
Marc Rochon said:
basically your saying use even numbers and not 59.94. I was just doing a quick test in my original post. In the future I'll set my camera to a true 24fps time base and 60fps record rate
Click to expand...

My camera goes between 23.98 (North American projects) 24 (personal projects) and 25 (European projects) I twice had a specific request for 59.94 and that was for Japan.

I am not sure you are grasping the full concepts here. Read the article, reread some of my posts and explain it back to me.

Battistella
 
ok. I just set up a new project. I set my timebase for the project to 23.98. I'm setting up to record slo mo and set the sensor record rate to 60fps and then I try 120fps. When I play it back at 23.98 in the edit it will be slow. Am I missing anything here? Why is it so bad to record at 59.94? I get that in real film you can't get .94 of a frame but would it make a huge difference? I don't think so.
 
It's not a drag capturing at 59.94.

But recording at 59.94 is not nessessary in order to record slow motion.

the red is a progressive camera that records more frames per second than the TIMEBASE. You do NOT have to change the TIMEBASE to record slow motion images. Although it is common to shoot 60p for slomotion on DSlRs it is completely unnecessary to do that with ReD.

you can pick whatever TIMEBASE you want, just know that it will affect the TIMEBASE of your timeline in your NLE and also that it could have an impact on sound recording.

Also, mixing framerates within a project is fine, mixing TIMEBASE is a nightmare.

Battistella
 
Can the Scarlet Dragon do non drop-frame time bases? I've never noticed those in the settings. Is it in the advanced options? (don't have the camera with me at the moment)
 
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