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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Should we buy a used redone mx or a scaret please?

hello,

the school already owns a group license for adobe cc which does red footage natively
the school already has a handful of low end video cameras
i am there to take it up a notch
we are putting together a budget for what it takes to shoot a student produced feature on 4k
it is not just video production: there are many departments in a shoot even down to crafty
we are doing collaborative learning groups centered around each department: even location scouting
the lesson plans are built around the fact that the most motivated move forward
the lesson plans around the scarlet are not whole class instruction
we team teach English, we team teach math, we team teach science

it is not every day we will be using the camera

it's like a virtual business but real if we can pull it off: i have no guarantees that we can get any real gigs
but that is the mindset of what's going on...think of the confidence booster if we get a real gig...

we have a small crew whose first interest is editing: we put them on the editing rig for 9 weeks
we have a small crew whose first interest is fashion: they go to wardrobe for the first marking period

we don't plan to shoot a feature until after a year has gone by, that is a lot of time to develop skills for each department

we don't plan to shoot other people's features just our own (which is why it needs to be a 4k camera)

we have a small crew who is interested in sound department
we have a small crew who is interested in composing music

we have a small crew who wants to act

in the end: we don't have enough people to fill the departments: it's a 4 year deal

thanks for positive criticism and advice

cheers, jeffrey
 
Ahhh, good background info! If the goal is 4k, I think the question now comes down to Scarlet vs. BMCC4k. Without going into the small details of what your feature film will entail and the pros and cons of each... if you have the budget, I recommend the Scarlet, otherwise, BMCC4k (but you'll have to wait for it since it isn't out yet).

Here are additional threads discussing the comparison between the two (keep in mind the BMCC4K isn't out yet):

http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.p...ction-Camera-vs-Red-Scarlet-(Spec-Comparison)

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?102366-Red-epic-raw-vs-Blackmagic-4k-raw-on-post

Regardless of which you pick, I'm sure you guys will have lots of fun!
 
hello Ryan,

thanks a ton for your goodgood thoughts

at this point a new scarlet seems to be the way to go

do you have any thoughts as to why the blackmagic camera would beat out a scarlet (regardless of price)


REDCODE™ 12 and 16-bit RAW 1-48 fps 5K FF at 5:1 compression


this leads me to believe that the scarlet can shoot 5k at 30fps: i know i'm missing something

thanks for any explantion

cheers, j

it will be a !$#@$$%%^& of fun if we can do this: the creativity of a special needs high school student: priceless
 
Well, the BM4K has global shutter, which can be useful in certain situations. You can buy 2 or 3 BM4K cameras for the price of one Scarlet so if you want multiple cams to shoot simultaneously during a scene, BM4K gives you that option. Resolve is included in the purchase of a BM4K, media is much cheaper, image is sharper (supposedly) but you might experience more moire/aliasing as a result. Each camera has its pros and cons. You'll just have to weigh them out and figure which one works best for you. Scarlet upgrade path to Dragon is pretty badass though.

Scarlet can only shoot 12fps max at 5K and 30fps max at 4K.

Good luck!
 
Another reason to have multiple camera brains is that you don't want to be stuck in the awful event that you have a problem with your intial camera. I don't want to jinx you, but if you do have an issue (either accident, or camera update related) that makes you send in your main teaching tool for service, that will limit your instruction.

Perhaps if you are not raising enough money to have a pair of camera brains, you should line up a rentable spare (with a previously agreed rate) to keep your program on track while you get needed service done.
 
Daniel Pearson said:
Do you have a link to said rumours?
Click to expand...

A big +1 on that Daniel!

I think your bigger decision is which mount to go with for Scarlet (Canon or Nikon- auto or manual?) as you certainly can NOT afford to be putting PL or Leica etc. lenses in the hands of high school kids!

Just getting them used to learning the whole RED work flow is huge and with Adobe some what ironic, as many here are now (again) debating whether to go back to FCP X and over priced Apple hardware or move on to Light Works (with a yearly fee) as many power users really hate the cc money grab...

Obviously, many good points here on the rest of your production expenses will have to be considered as well.

Good luck to you!
 
My suggestion is: Get first in contact with RED. They have perhaps some specific ideas for education or your idea.

RED One or Scarlett? Scarlet with no doubt.

Good luck with the project!
 
Having better gear will not guarantee better work, it may even lower the quality of it. Also, how focussed is the film work? Will they be learning about it all day long or only an hour or so per day? Don't forget that you'll probably end up spending hundreds or maybe thousands on extra storage for the files.
 
Hi Jeff,

We have been shooting on Red for three and a half years. There is a lot to consider. We have shot a feature:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miaarxRvP70

a bunch of shorts (Here are some scenes):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j1-miM_OR4

commercials for local non-profits:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5fDkhzgtYM

and music videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovvqxAVtQsM

Gareth is dead right in that better gear will not necessarily produce better results. Bigger cameras and manual everything can be a huge challenge for students. Is the class about producing the best results or about providing an educational experience? If students are enrolled in your class for four years you can build a substantial amount of skills with a small group but you have to shoot a lot. We shot 54 days in a 186 day school year on our feature. It's like planning an intense field trip every three days. We put about 150 students through our courses each year so we need to shoot constantly to get them time in each department. I can tell you it can be done but it is no small task and it never works out as neatly as you imagine it when you started. I can provide specifics about lab setup and camera instruction techniques and anything else you might need if you are interested. As far as getting gigs, well, we shoot a lot of the pro mo stuff for our school division and that helps fund the program. Good luck!
 
hello, now we're moving: where is jetmania?

i don't plan on it going smoothly, that's where the real learning happens
i like the 'intense field trip every 3 days' that is wonderful

re: gareth's concern about storage: the school has a very large network and always has the option to increase: it is like our own cloud

re: adobe: i hate the cloud, i personally won't be taking the trip, but the school kinda has to so that will be the kicker: i can't work on the same project at school at and home with cs6: bummer

we will start slow, that is why we want to 'future proof' ourselves as best as possible

i haven't watched any of the links you provided, will do that soon

the idea is that a good/great story has to be written to have access to the camera: the students vote for the one that gets produced

in the nice time we produce 30 second commercials: shoe, jewelry, sports drink, etc.
we develop a portfolio of work as a club and then try to negotiate gigs at minimum wage or more
the money gets rolled back in to buy more jibs, dollies, steadicams, etc.


150 students each year is absurd to me: we plan on 20
what do you teach or who are you facilitating please?
it sounds like you have this down to a science

thanks for your encouragement, it really means a lot

cheers, jeffrey
 
The rules don't change. Start with a good script. For us we spend up to four weeks having full class brainstorming and research sessions. It's not a competition. Everyone contributes to the one idea. It can be brutal but in the end we always have a decent script. It's pretty unrealistic to think that the best writers will be the best camera department so why give them the camera. You need to employ everyone in their area of interest and strength. Think of it as a platoon. Everyone is working toward the same goal. That is the model we use. For those who are with us till grade 12 I guarantee them a lead role no matter what their ability. Everyone gets a chance. Doing this stuff is tough, tough, tough. You need to get everyone pulling for each other not against each other.

That's my advice.
 
hello, i still don't get it except for the 'if you ain't ribbin you ain't livin' quote

i checked out the youtube links: very sweet indeed, especially the music video

also, i didn't consider the script writers being camerapeople
i agree with your comments on teach to student's strengths


re: platoon type mentality: i finally saw 1st person pov of helmet cam during the war in iraq: crazy
the longest machine gun fire ever (from a helicopter) had the soldiers filming it laughing because the gunner just wouldn't let off the trigger

cheers, j
 
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