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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Should RED pay using footage in their showreel?

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Without reading thru the whole thing, an apologies if I double post this idea:

The accepting or requesting material, for free, is normal in every industry related to film and TV. 3D software companies, video post software, editing software, etc. ask for and receive free footage, usually with great excitement, from end users. Why should Red be different?

My only complaint:) They only want MX footage:) (No MX joy yet for me)
 
Jean-Charles,

First: If you made a constructive comment (or, hey: PM) about where you think this thread should belong in your eyes, that would be more helpful than an angry public message that gives no alternative.
And really, what was your OP, if not a complaint about REDs practice?
And as said by another poster, mods don't need permission to moderate. We do it all the time, it comes with the job. Reminds me: reduser is a free, private service, nobody forces you to use it.

Second: You imply that Jim should pay for footage because he is a billionaire and owns an island. Actually, if Jim hadn't been a billionaire, we wouldn't have RED. RED is so awesome because Jim has the means to pour money into it, and doesn't expect an immediate financial return. We all gain from that.
I dislike the notion of suggesting somebody should be held to different standards simply because he is rich.

Third: I wrote "move on" because I had the feeling that you kept reiterating yourself, and the discussion was running in circles. I think everybody has understood by now that you don't like the idea of giving away your footage without reimbursement. Good for you. Accept that other people make different decisions on how they showcase their work.

Fourth: You imply that people sending in footage don't understand copyright. I would say that any decent production company/DP/cam operator would have it in their/his/her contract that they could use footage for promotional purposes. Just like anyone in this industry (maybe with your notable exception) uses their showreel that partly features work done by others; this is the magic of film production, a collaborative process. And we all have to constantly market ourselves, and a showreel is a tool for that.

Fifth: Everyone - don't get into name-calling. This will not be accepted. Don't make public assumptions about other people's work.

Finally: Time to move on. Really.
 
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To answer the thread subject line - "Should RED pay..."

NO!

If you did a poll for this question, I'd be shocked if it wasn't an over whelming:

NO!

I am a professional and I would be honored to say, "my work made the RED REEL!" Because it is a big deal.


Martin: I wasn't name calling when I said he was French... ;)
 
Shawn Booth said:
I am a professional and I would be honored to say, "my work made the RED REEL!" Because it is a big deal.
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Exactly.

I can only hope that my footage holds up with some of the great DPs and ops currently using Red camera systems.
 
Shawn Booth said:
Martin: I wasn't name calling when I said he was French... ;)
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I hope you were not Shawn, as I take it personally when any one makes any comment about a person given His/Hers nationality, as I have great friends all over the world, including France, US, China, Mexico, Brasil, Africa, Japan, he he Italy off course, and so on and on and on..

My point.. the world is our home, and we are all equally Humans, leaving in it, regardless of Nationality, not matter were one is from, we will find good people and bad people every were in every Nation.

Not saying that Jean is a Bad person, is just voicing his opinion by given right of freedom of speech, and so are we, just lets make sure that we do not bring any one's Nationality in discussion here, especially so because REDUSER is literally and Truly a GLOBAL COMMUNITY!!
 
There are paid and unpaid casting calls all the time. People show up for both.
 
This is exactly the sort of penny-pinching, whining , Shreik!! I-might-be-missing-out on-something shit that is currently strangling the entire entertainment industry.:violin:

For fuck’s sake; OK you’ve shot a film, It’s cost you or somebody a lot of time and money and you have every right to HOPE that you can recoup some of it. But, what can it possibly cost you to let someone have a few seconds of it to put on a showreel?

It’s not like they’re asking you to cut a piece out of your original negative, or get a dupe negative made, or even spring for a blank videotape or a DVD.:frown2: All they’re asking for is a data upload which in most cases will cost you nothing.
As many people have said, most RED users would be overjoyed that some of their footage got used on a RED showreel; many would probably even PAY for the privilege.

I don’t know why you’re even bothering pursuing this. As it is, I’m sure RED will get far, FAR more submissions than they can realistically use; do you really think they’re going to be interested in dealing with Primadonnas like you who expect to be paid for a couple of seconds of footage.

:rant:
This sort of reminds of me of people who make borderline-garbage Indy films who nobody seems interested in paying to exhibit or watch, and then squeal like a stuck pig because somebody posts a bootleg copy on the Internet. If it was me I’d be flattered that somebody was actually that interested, and I’d celebrate the chance, however slight, that the free publicity generated might lead to more work for me. Point is, they’re aren’t losing any income because it is unlikely in the extreme that there ever would be any, but boy, do they ever pile on the righteous indignation.
 
The Red Reel is a voluntary meritocracy. Inclusion in the reel is a professional benchmark of quality. Red does not sell or broadcast the reel, however they do gain from it materially since it exemplifies the best footage their product has produced. This fact is understood by those who submit footage. Jim could not, as a practical matter, create the footage in-house, nor should he. By accepting submissions, Red is proving that there is no trickery involved in making the images and they have third-party confirmation of this. If Red paid for this footage, they would lose this aspect of their credibility and jeopardize their product's integrity.
 
The RED showreel is some of the best free advertising out there. Imagine being able to tell a potential client "examples of my work? Sure, first of all, a couple of my shots are in the RED showreel, the sequence right after Peter Jackson's stuff and before Steven Soderbergh's."
 
Hi Jean-Charles

Sorry for keeping the debate on, but though I understand what you are saying (Hey, I'm french too. Don't bash me guys that is free violence) I'm on the red side.

If I remember well it's a part of the rental agreement and the production contracts that footage can be used in demo reel, with the consent of the production, and if they are no exclusive part inside.

if the people involved in the movie as ''far'' as the camera manufacturer is can't use the footage... they could be no buzz. I don't say advertising because the Reel is to be used on events, and on the Red website only. I mean, if it were on national TV, 10 times a day, ok, but in our case... not relevant.

On a personnal note, I would be proud to have some footage on the Red reel... though as I've just received my MX mail, and have a feature on works, I can t upgrade, and can't send some footage. :sad:
 
Stephen Strangways said:
The RED showreel is some of the best free advertising out there. Imagine being able to tell a potential client "examples of my work? Sure, first of all, a couple of my shots are in the RED showreel, the sequence right after Peter Jackson's stuff and before Steven Soderbergh's."
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Exactly. How anyone could NOT understand this is beyond me.
 
Bérenger Brillante said:
If I remember well it's a part of the rental agreement and the production contracts that footage can be used in demo reel, with the consent of the production, and if they are no exclusive part inside.
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Hi Béranger, thanks for keeping this debate civilized... I've never signed (and never will) any rental contract or production contract which will allow camera operators to use my work wirthout my consent. But of course if someone kindly asks me, I usually don't see any reason to refuse.

I should precise that I'm running a publishing house and a new production company, so I'm quite accustomed with right contracts, the French ones I mean (no residuals ?)

Shawn Booth said:
You shouldn't self-finance.

You keep speaking of pro this and pro that... I went to your website. Where's the pro?
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Shawn Booth said:
Yes, I do. And you're French too.
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Well, that's what I keep saying myself, I shouldn't self-finance. I'm working on it right now. :001_wub: If you think my work isn't "pro" enough and you don't like France, why did you submit me quote for my previous project a few years back if I remember correctly ? Anyway, you're more than welcomed in Paris : if you step by, it will be a pleasure for me to show you something else than the Eiffel Tower and the Moulin Rouge.

Liam Hall said:
Hey Jean-Charles, I visited your website. Nice photography and nice music on one those films of yours, "Gymnopédie No.1" if I'm not mistaken. Did you pay Erik Satie for the use of his track?
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Thanks Liam. In fact Erik is a friend of mine. He did me a favour. you know how it is : you're sitting on the couch, smoking a little bit, talking of girls here and there and suddenly you think : hey, Erik, this music rocks ! For my next project he's supposed to compose something special but I must admit that I'm a little bit frightened as he's more into Heavy Metal these days.

Martin Weiss said:
If you made a constructive comment (or, hey: PM) about where you think this thread should belong in your eyes, that would be more helpful than an angry public message that gives no alternative. (...)Finally: Time to move on. Really.
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Martin, you can move the whole thread in the "Off-topic" stuff, really it doesn't belong here. It's not really a complaint, I'm not angry at all, just a little warm, I think you should see me when I'm angry, it would deserve a whole new forum ;-)

Anyway, I'm glad to see that a lot of people are interested in this thread, more than some "footage" topics. And I've never been more motivated than when the whole world is against me ;-) I've never felt so right ;-) It's a quality in France ;-) And for film directors ;-) Not for soccer managers ;-)

I think it's time to close this thread and wait for all the beautiful footage we're gonna see this time, hoping it won't follow the usual "You get what you pay for" words I get when I receive a quote for a Red rental :laugh:
 
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