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Should I shoot black mist/ Ro mist or not?

Owen Rennie

Owen Rennie

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A question directed at colourists I guess.

I recently purchased a Schneider 1/4 black mist filter for use on my next film. However I can only seem to use it 70% of the time due to certain light weight rigs that can't support a Matte box etc.

Question is would it be easy enough to grade all the footage without the filter to match the filtered footage or am i better off not using it at all?


Thanks

Owen
 
You can alway tape a filter to the front of a lens if necessary, even create some sort of sunshade with black tape or black wrap.

My feeling is that if you want the whole movie to look filtered, then you're better off using the filter 70% of the time and digitally filtering the other 30%, if only to make the color-correction sessions go faster.

It doesn't hurt to have a 1/8 Schneider Black Frost as well for when the 1/4 is too heavy.
 
Great, thanks David and Ulf. My main concern is flying the camera on a drone where the Matte box may be too heavy. Plus my matte box doesnt support the 14mm. I will experiment with the options mentioned.

Thanks again
 
Your movie is going to be 30% drone shots?

In general, since drone shots tend to be wide landscape images, it's better to not use diffusion filters, or at most, use a 1/8 strength if the rest of the project is using a 1/4 -- audiences expect aerial shots to be clearer and sharper.
 
Ok that's interesting. It will be 20% drone. I wasn't aware of this. I've only done a few tests with the 1/4 and haven't had any of the footage graded yet so I'm not 100% on the look I'm going for. I just heard some good things about these filters so had to try it out.

Would it be odd to only filter say people and have all the landscapes clean and sharp?

Its a non narrative film. Landscapes and people
 
Owen Rennie said:
Would it be odd to only filter say people and have all the landscapes clean and sharp?
Click to expand...

Do a test, cut it together, and find out...

I think my question is why do you want to shoot with a 1/4 Black Frost filter -- because you like the filtered look for this project?
 
Yes I will definitely do more tests. I just can't grade to save my life so really wanted to hear what you pros had to say and appreciate the the advice. I basically decided to shoot this film without doing enough tests it seems. However samples I've seen I do like the look of these filters.

On another note, i love the look of Ron Frickes 70mm work on Baraka/ Samsara (who doesn't). I've assumed a black mist would help adding to the 70mm filmic look? Or am I dreaming here?
 
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Jamon Lewis said:
Where have they gone for DSMC1? That video that you did shooting a little street fair made me want the Pearl 1 or 2 but when I went to look I couldn't find it Kippertie's website.
Click to expand...

Not sure if he still sells them for DSCM1. Used market is your best bet.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
You'd have to test and decide for yourself.
Click to expand...

Yes that's fair enough and thanks again. I Know testing is part of the process however I'm a one man team and I self fund my films so trying to avoid spending thousands testing every filter out there and paying for a coulourist just yet to find the look of the film.
 
If you're thinking that a 1/4 ProMist or Black Frost is a quick fix to getting a "film look", you're going to be disappointed. Use a diffusion filter when you need a diffusion filter, to soften the image, to get halation around light sources, etc. Some people find that a 1/4 Black ProMist or Black Frost adds a texture (and lowers contrast) that can take the curse off of the clean digital look but it's not really specifically a "film look", it's a mist diffusion filter look, which if you like, you should use.

As for testing, you're just talking about testing a 1/4 Black Frost versus no filter, not dozens of filters. You could do an initial test with a digital still camera. You can just set-up your Red camera with and without the filter and look at the image on a monitor. You can record the image and just play with some R3D frames on RedCine-X, etc. All of that will help you decide if you like the filter.

The Black Frost is a diffusion filter based on a "mist" design (particles that scatter light combined with black particles that suppress contrast loss from the mist particles.) There is some loss of sharpness from using a diffusion filter, and you have to make sure you are using ND filters outdoors because if you stop down too far, the particles in the filter will come into focus, looking like you have dust on the lens.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
If you're thinking that a 1/4 ProMist or Black Frost is a quick fix to getting a "film look", you're going to be disappointed. Use a diffusion filter when you need a diffusion filter, to soften the image, to get halation around light sources, etc. Some people find that a 1/4 Black ProMist or Black Frost adds a texture (and lowers contrast) that can take the curse off of the clean digital look but it's not really specifically a "film look", it's a mist diffusion filter look, which if you like, you should use.

As for testing, you're just talking about testing a 1/4 Black Frost versus no filter, not dozens of filters. You could do an initial test with a digital still camera. You can just set-up your Red camera with and without the filter and look at the image on a monitor. You can record the image and just play with some R3D frames on RedCine-X, etc. All of that will help you decide if you like the filter.

The Black Frost is a diffusion filter based on a "mist" design (particles that scatter light combined with black particles that suppress contrast loss from the mist particles.) There is some loss of sharpness from using a diffusion filter, and you have to make sure you are using ND filters outdoors because if you stop down too far, the particles in the filter will come into focus, looking like you have dust on the lens.
Click to expand...

Great, thanks David, reduser is a better place with you around. Will run those tests this week.
 
Owen Rennie said:
Yes I will definitely do more tests. I just can't grade to save my life so really wanted to hear what you pros had to say and appreciate the the advice. I basically decided to shoot this film without doing enough tests it seems. However samples I've seen I do like the look of these filters.
Click to expand...
Be warned that in general, I think "less is more." Mr. Mullen gives very good advice above. As a pal of mine in the sound business says: "you have to use taste +1."

There are alternatives to the 1/8 Pro Mist out there, depending on what effect you're looking for. I really like the Tiffen GlimmerGlass, but it may not be ideal for everything. All this stuff winds up looking different in different focal lengths, plus there may be weird lens aberrations with flares and harsh sunlight, stuff like that.
 
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