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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Shooting with Scarlet help?

Got hit with a "gotcha" today.
Tried to shoot with a Tokina 11-16mm in the snow.
We are talking dead white -23 winchill weather here.
Blame lack of experience on that part.
Changed to my Rokinon Cine 35mm and surived nicely in T11 most of the shoot.

So much to learn so little patience ;)
 
Peter Majtan said:
You can not change sensitivity of any sensor after it has been made and put in a camera - 5D including.
Click to expand...

Perhaps splitting hairs here, but I just wanted to point out clearly that changing the ISO setting on a Red camera is completely different from changing the ISO setting on DSLR. I consider my Scarlet to be fixed at ISO 800, even though the software is capable of emulating other speeds post facto. I consider my Canon to be adjustable and perfectly usable from 50-6400, and I can push it farther if needed at the cost of some noise.
 
Neil Cronin said:
Perhaps splitting hairs here, but I just wanted to point out clearly that changing the ISO setting on a Red camera is completely different from changing the ISO setting on DSLR. I consider my Scarlet to be fixed at ISO 800, even though the software is capable of emulating other speeds post facto. I consider my Canon to be adjustable and perfectly usable from 50-6400, and I can push it farther if needed at the cost of some noise.
Click to expand...

Neil - if you continue reading my post, that is exactly what I have said. But You need to understand that what you are experiencing with the DSLR is not variable sensitivity of a sensor. The sensitivity does not change. This is impossible. What changes is the electronic boost (or reduction) of the sensor's signal. On top of the hardware electronic boost the DSLR's deploy de-noising for the respective higher ISO's. It is my understanding that Canon in particular has a dedicated circuity to deal with just that. This is what allows you to shoot at higher ISO and get useable imagery. Now You clearly understand that the RED does not change the imagery when you change the ISO - this is just a meta-data tag that only affects the monitoring path (the way the RAW data is interpreted for us to see) and as such the ISO function is nothing more then post-catrure image processing. In the same exact way you can deploy post-capture DNR (digital noise reduction) and get "useable imagery" even from high ISO exports from the RAW data. This is the power of RAW - all this processing is deferred to AFTER you have captured your images. This is precisely what allows us to take advantage of the ever-evolving color science and why You can open RAW data shot on the RED ONE (non-X) in build 16 and process it with the latest color-science with a dramatic improvement to your imagery....
 
Peter Majtan said:
Neil - if you continue reading my post, that is exactly what I have said. But You need to understand that what you are experiencing with the DSLR is not variable sensitivity of a sensor. The sensitivity does not change. This is impossible. What changes is the electronic boost (or reduction) of the sensor's signal. On top of the hardware electronic boost the DSLR's deploy de-noising for the respective higher ISO's. It is my understanding that Canon in particular has a dedicated circuity to deal with just that. This is what allows you to shoot at higher ISO and get useable imagery. Now You clearly understand that the RED does not change the imagery when you change the ISO - this is just a meta-data tag that only affects the monitoring path (the way the RAW data is interpreted for us to see) and as such the ISO function is nothing more then post-catrure image processing. In the same exact way you can deploy post-capture DNR (digital noise reduction) and get "useable imagery" even from high ISO exports from the RAW data. This is the power of RAW - all this processing is deferred to AFTER you have captured your images. This is precisely what allows us to take advantage of the ever-evolving color science and why You can open RAW data shot on the RED ONE (non-X) in build 16 and process it with the latest color-science with a dramatic improvement to your imagery....
Click to expand...

Yup, I totally get it. The word "sensitivity" here is ... sensitive ... I can see. I understand how Canon cameras work, and I understand how Red cameras work. I was trying to share my understanding in the clearest simple terms, but perhaps I should not have used the word "sensitivity", since it apparently has a technical meaning that I did not intend to invoke.

By the way, I don't see how this is an advantage for Red cameras. Under the same light, I can shoot a Canon at ISO 6400 and get usable raw images, but the Red would just capture black that is not recoverable in post. Am I missing some of your point?
 
Now you are comparing apples with oranges. The 5D does capture nice RAW... ...stills - I have always said the 5D is one of the best still DSLRs out there. The RED captures RAW in motion. Two different beasts... Two different prices... Two different markets... And very much off topic at this point. I was simply explaining the ISO implications for shooting with RED. I'm sure RED could invest into technology that would boost the sensor signl while cleaning out the noise, but I for one am glad they chose to rather invest in Dragon - a far more sensitive sensor with amazing dynamic range. And this is not to say that the Canon approach is wrong - not at all...
 
Peter Majtan said:
And very much off topic at this point. I was simply explaining the ISO implications for shooting with RED.
Click to expand...

I'm not certain that it is off-topic. A lot of Red shooters come from DSLR backgrounds (myself included), and this is an important divergence between the two platforms. I, for one, tried in vein to adjust the ISO on my Scarlet before I was able to triangulate from the available docs the fact that doing so does nothing at all except write out different metadata. That was frustrating, but certainly not the end of the world.

Anyway, yes, they are different beasts. I'm totally fine with a native fixed ISO, because I too would like to see Red focus on other more important aspects, and I understand that they are a relatively small shop with limited resources.

Hmm, maybe there should be a FAQ or guide specifically for folks who are coming from DSLRs?

-n
 
That might be a good idea - but would require someone with extensive experience with the DSLR and the RED as well. These are far and few between as most of the experienced RED guys have shot with RED before the DSLR revolution took off. Myself I have shot a ton of footage on the RED ONE before I ever got a chance to shoot with the 5D. Naturally - once you have a access to shoot on RED you don't tend to spend much time shooting DSLRs. But I am sure there are some even on this board - just have to find them and see if they are willing to spare some time..

About RED - please do not underestimate them. They are far from "relatively small shop with limited resources". You will be blown away to see the size, quality and resources allocated at RED to research, design, development and manufacturing. Many big camera companies made that same fatal assumption...

:reddevil:

Peter
 
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