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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Shooting w/o a matte box…..

Liam Hall said:
My advice: never leave home without a hood. And that goes for all you girls too;)
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I think you left a few words out of your first sentence Liam - it needs the word "lens" just before the word "hood", plus "and screw on filters" to end that sentence. After that, the last sentence is just fine :-)))
 
Steve Gibby said:
I think you left a few words out of your first sentence Ian - it needs the word "lens" just before the word "hood", plus "and screw on filters" to end that sentence. After that, the last sentence is just fine :-)))
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Thanks for speaking up, Gibby. Don't need no AC. Don't need to feed one, travel one, and buy even more hotel rooms or tents.

I use a mattebox when I'm working out of the van (mostly to be able to use grad filters), but when it's backpack time, it's screw ons only. And I leave home without a hood all the time. If you have to shoot into the sun, any hat will do, or just your focus hand. These matte box boys never had to shoot while hanging from ropes or running from annoying Chinese soldiers.
 
Thanks James :thumbup1:

Real mobile production like we both do requires very lightweight rigs - nothing is ever on the camera that doesn't have to be there. Bottom line is that the weight/bulk/expense of cine lenses, MB, and FF simply don't jive with that scenario. Add in eye focusing by the operator and the mobile production approach is complete.

There's more than one way to skin a cat folks...
 
It's good to remember that these to a certain degree are stylistic and practical choices.
One get rather focused on the kind of productions one are working in...
 
I shoot without a matte box all the time. Hand held on interiors with a sunshade. A lot of it also has to do with speed. With an mb19 MB, i can change from an n9 pola combo to an n3 in a few seconds, which is much faster than you could trade out screw in filters. A lot of it comes down to personal preference and personal habit. I will trade off a little weight for flexibility most of the time. It also depends on the demands of the production. Again, to me, time is a huge deal. I never want to miss a shot, or tell a director that we missed a shot because we were saving a pound by not having a MB up.

All that being said, I agree that it is bizarre to see all of these pictures of epics ( even, if not especially the ones from red) without any AKS that you would need to shoot. Sure you can shoot with a camera with a lens stuffed on it, but that's not how most people shoot (no offense to those who do manage to shoot that way, I just don't get it).

Nick
 
James Brundige said:
Thanks for speaking up, Gibby. Don't need no AC. Don't need to feed one, travel one, and buy even more hotel rooms or tents.

I use a mattebox when I'm working out of the van (mostly to be able to use grad filters), but when it's backpack time, it's screw ons only. And I leave home without a hood all the time. If you have to shoot into the sun, any hat will do, or just your focus hand. These matte box boys never had to shoot while hanging from ropes or running from annoying Chinese soldiers.
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What's an AC? Is that where I plug my battery charger...

Seriously, James I shoot more and more with next to no help or no help at all. In fact, I haven't done a cine-style shoot in three years (I guess I must have sucked at those). I use both hoods and matte-boxes whether I'm indoors or out, running from wild animals, an angry mob or an ex-wife. Rarely, do I choose to use neither; if nothing else it will help protect my lens against knocks and bangs.

I do find it amusing when I read on forums, people (particularly those brought up in DSLR la land) saying they don't need to use a hood let alone a matte box since photographers don't use them. Ok. Good luck with that I say - it's one thing to choose not to use a matte box or hood, quite another to dismiss them completely. I think we can all agree on that:)
 
There is no "right" way to lens and accessorize Epic - because its a modular DSMC camera. But there are "right" ways to approach it for each industry or style the camera can be used in.

Cine style shooters will naturally choose a matte box and drop in filters. Some EFP and hybrid style shooters will choose a lightweight clip on matte box with drop ins - while other mobile EFP and hybrid style shooters will choose screw on filters with a lens hood, or sometimes no hood at all and screw ins (hand shade, etc). Those using Epic as a stills camera will most likely choose a setup they're used to from the DSLR world - a lens hood and screw on filters.

Again, with a camera like Epic there is no universally "right" or universally "wrong" way to lens or accessorize the camera. Just set the camera up in what you feel is the most logical way for the shot sequences you're going to be shooting and go for it! If you're getting the quality of images that your studio, network, or client is expecting, then you're lensing, accessorizing, and operating the camera correctly.

Epic is not only a media convergence camera, but its also naturally a shooting style convergence camera. With the diversity of styles and genres being done with Epic I think we'd all be better served by taking a "live and let live" stance, learn what we can from each other, show respect for each other, and just get out and nail some great images in whatever styles and genres we work in.

When people ask me how I lens and accessorize my Red cameras I take the time to explain what I use, why I use it, and what genres I shoot. Some like it and some don't - and I'm fine with that right up to the point where they tell me my choices are wrong. My Red setups have been finely honed for the type of work me and my crews do. Other's needs will naturally vary depending on the styles and genres they shoot.

A "why can't you do things the right way - my way!" attitude to other's Epic setups assumes that you know more about the needs, demands, and economics of their workplace than they do - and that's an impossibility. If we develop an "I have to have this item on my camera" attitude we simply stop experimenting and spreading our knowledge base.

Let's all quit bickering, set up our Epic's how we want/need, and just get out and shoot some great images :))
 
Lee Dashiell said:
Careful now, you might offend someone.
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Just playin' with ya :) The title of your thread got us going, because there are all sorts of shooters and situations where a matte box is a liability.

Seriously, I had a big mattebox which I sold. Now a little Chroziel 15mm which I quite like, and it has better sun shading and looks cooler than a hood.

I wish the Red clip on had a rotating filter, because I polarize about half the time. And I'd love to have a full cine crew with experts crawling all over a $200,000 rig, but it's not my niche.
 
I really don't get the issue with using a Mattebox and not using a mattebox...it's personal choice in the end isn't it? Sure it might save you from a flare or two but some people like that right?

It's a choice everyone makes but it is agreed that one shouldnt dismiss them, they can be useful

Though i really don't get why this whole 'my mum bought me so now im a dp' kind of attitude towards those that don't use some gear over other gear...

It's a kind of childish attitude to have in the way that everyones content when its done, can be seen, you can level it against your own and be safe knowing that you either make better stuff or that you clearly need to up your game...

Doesn't matter if they used a mattebox or not on the product or if they chose a redmote over a sidehandle and so on...gears gear...its a tool...its only half the job...if a guy walks up to you and says his a dp after his mum bought him a camera... I'd hope that he has the reels and cv to back that statement up or just admit his a guy with a camera that just likes to film things...

I for one would shoot without a mattebox because I prefer less profile on my cameras and it to be easier to carry around, my R1 always had a mattebox because it wasn't something i'd take everywhere compared to what I would do with my X when its in hand,
The EPIC has changed how most people like to shoot and I guess some decided to drop some gear they felt wasn't necessary for their style of working
 
Steve Gibby said:
Let's all quit bickering, set up our Epic's how we want/need, and just get out and shoot some great images :))
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Are we bickering? I thought we were having a giggle. Honestly, Steve can there be two more innovative shooters on RedUser than yourself and Lee? He goes to work on a mobile zimmer frame from what I can tell. Respect all round!
 
Maybe I'm missing something, but how many professional still photographers do you see with a mattebox in front of their Canon or Nikon SLR? Their pictures look gorgeous, and yet, no mattebox.

If a mattebox is not a requirement for still pictures, why do people believe it is for motion pictures?
 
Jaime Vallés said:
Maybe I'm missing something, but how many professional still photographers do you see with a mattebox in front of their Canon or Nikon SLR? Their pictures look gorgeous, and yet, no mattebox.

If a mattebox is not a requirement for still pictures, why do people believe it is for motion pictures?
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The difference is that quite often our cameras are in motion, passing by various sources of light which can introduce flares, change contrast, etc. A still camera is susceptible to these as well but the photographer is thinking in terms of a single frame that's not in motion.

I often shoot without a MB with R1 when I'm using still lenses. I use hoods or sunshades and I use screw-in filters. Personally I prefer square glass as I find it easier to use and I feel it cleans better.

The choice to use a MB is directly related to the needs of the shoot, lenses being used, filters available, crew, etc. The only time it might be considered wrong to go without one is if you can't get the shot you need because it requires a MB. Otherwise if you're able to pull off your shots, it doesn't matter how you got there.

I would like to add that there are times when a bad mattebox might be a worse choice of all. Light leak, off angle, etc can cause problems, so quality of MB becomes a factor.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
Otherwise if you're able to pull off your shots, it doesn't matter how you got there.
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Bingo. I'm not saying matteboxes aren't useful. I'm just arguing against the point of view that they're obligatory to get good results.
 
Timmy's mom bought him a RED camera... What she really needed to give him was some manners.
 
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