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Shooting @ Night?

Scott Miller

Scott Miller

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I tried a search, but didn't see anything that was a FAQ:)

Any suggestions on what the best way to shoot night scenes are? I will be shooting a ski slope with a parade coming down with torches/flares. I assume just expose as usual and don't push the gain (at all). Open the shutter a little?

Sorry for the total NEWB question. I seem to be getting good to great @ exposing well lit/daylight scenes, but this will be the first time I will be shooting natural/no light. It looked fine last year shot on a P2 camera, but that is a different beast (I didn't shoot it that time)

Thx for the assist, or at least I hope I brought some laughter to yor day:

Scott
 
Get the fastest glass you can and open up all the way.

You can set your camera to 640 ISO for monitoring purposes but I doubt you will be able to overexpose anything in an available light night scene on a ski slope.

i'd also keep the shutter at 1/48th to keep the motion smooth.

David
 
I'd love to hear more about this as well.

I'd push the shutter a little if necessary. 1/40th does very well for slow moving subjects and slow camera operating. Of course I'd shoot a test with 1/40th of subjects moving at similar speeds relative to the frame if you have the camera already. Or make sure to rent a 7" LCD and carefully inspect there with a good hood to avoid glare from near by lights. And if you like the exposure already, since many night-skiing equipped slopes provide ample exposure, then use 1/48th.

I am not sure about the monitoring ISO, but I think ISO640 might be a safe bet, unless you plan to do heavy noise reduction in post. The amount of light also plays into how much you can push the ISO. I've seen very lit up city streets shots at ISO1600 with good noise reduction done in post. Maybe with good exposure from slope lighting and simple noise reduction you could feel safe shooting with an ISO800 setting in-camera?

People seem to love NeatVideo.

I'd love to see a sample once you got it.
 
Well if your client is OK with a 7D or 5D I'd go with those. The 7D loves cold weather. Just remember the 4min/4GB limit if you need to shoot continuously. The cheaper rental should allow you to get good support, and I'd just shoot with a f/2.8 zoom if it is an ENG type of job and there is quite a bit of light, especially if the deliverable is not 480p... might not want to go the Canon route if it is 1080p, or even 720p. A few Canon primes might be the way to go though for best exposure.
 
Okay, this is the perfect thread to ask my night shooting question.

First, the background: I will be shooting a lot at night during my next feature, and I HATE NOISE. I mean, I LOATHE NOISE. There. I've said it.

Now, the way i see things, to avoid getting noise in shots, you have to really open things up, which will blow the highlights. But underexposure to me is MUCH worse than noisy blacks.

What would you guys do? Just expose to the highlights and crush the crap out of the blacks?

Thanks.

Stephen
 
Scott, if the scene has a lot of torches/flares and faces are illuminated enough by light coming from those sources, you may be okay. You could probably push to 400/500 ASA in post but you could run into some blown highlights depending on where all of your ratios are falling. It's possible that if those torches are providing a nice overall ambient light you could get away just leaving this at 320ASA. Wondering if the snow might provide some natural bounce. Again, this all depends on how many torches, intensity etc. Also, wide or tight shots? Will you need to have a zoom for flexibility in adjusting focal length or will primes be an option? Zooms will be slower. I'd probably opt for superspeeds to give me some flexibility in choosing a useable stop but perhaps primes will be too limiting if you need to keep changing the frame. If you could run some tests might help to determine your tolerances for noise/blown highlights, etc.

Stephen, what kind of shots will you need to get? Will you have a good night exterior lighting package? The thing about shooting at night is that you have to determine what detail you need to see, both in the shadows and in the highlights. If you need to see into the shadows with very little noise, yet maintain highlights then you may need to consider adding some fill into the shadows to get them clean and making some adjustments in post. Unfortunately, night scenes are tough with most formats. They often require some compromises unless you can throw some money at them. Often times you'll need large sources and ways of controlling the light so that you're hitting the areas you want to. Large sources mean generators and all of that translates into money.

Not every shot will require that much complexity, some night shots can be achieved relatively easy if the conditions are right and the framing doesn't lend itself to needing very much supplemented light. But in general, whenever I have been faced with night scenes in the past, they have always required a good amount of tools to get them done right.
 
If your time code is set to TOD, and it set to the actual time of the day, make sure not to shoot at midnight since your time code will reset itself in the middle of the take and this specific take will not be usable.:nono:
Courtesy advise by ACT (Israel Association of Cinema and Television Professionals, www.act.org.il)
 
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David (dudi) Namir said:
If your time code is set to TOD, and it set to the actual time of the day, make sure not to shoot at midnight since your time code will reset itself in the middle of the take and this specific take will not be usable.:nono:
Courtesy advise by ACT (Israel Association of Cinema and Television Professionals, www.act.org.il)
Click to expand...

PLease report this to RED. The camera should be able to handle a midnight TC rollover.

David
 
Stephen Pruitt said:
What would you guys do? Just expose to the highlights and crush the crap out of the blacks?

Thanks.

Stephen
Click to expand...

Stephen,

If you look at images from most "video" camera's you will notice that the blacks (more specifically) the blue channel noise is usually crushed in th blacks.

The reason that people complain about noisy blacks in the RED is that they actually do nothing to reduce that noise, instead RED gives you the option of pushing the camera to your tastes. (a more film style approach).

I think that you should do some tests. We all know that the RED is a pretty slow sensor, so more ambient light is needed than you might think. I would always opt for photographing it on the brighter side and then "put back the black" as opposed to riding the edge of exposure and increasing noise. Having to pull clean images out of underexposed RED files is no easy task, but "dimming" your images to create a look is much easier and cleaner.

Even though it's "dark" you still need a lot of light.

I also would tend to use a 1/4 blue on any tungsten source just to make sure you are turning on that blue channel. Just because the new Colour Science addresses this it does not mean that the sensor is doesn't prefer daylight sources.


Merry Christmas!

David
 
It was a one time event, with noting to test before hand.

It was strictly illuminated by the pair of torches each skier carried.

So I set it up @ 400ASA, shutter @ 32(?) and hoped for the best.

It came out really well, if I say so myself. Well, the director and producer both loved the stills and small MOV I sent, so I would cal it a success. If I get clearance from the director I will post a still or MOV for critique.

If I pushed it in RedCine, I can see the noise in the blacks especially, but nothing immediately visible in the areas with the skiers and flares.

Thanks to everyone for their input. Based on the input I decided not to open the shutter up to 24. Even though the skiers were slow, didn't want any psychedelic effects in the shot:)

Scott
 
Scott Miller said:
It was a one time event, with noting to test before hand.

It was strictly illuminated by the pair of torches each skier carried.

So I set it up @ 400ASA, shutter @ 32(?) and hoped for the best.

It came out really well, if I say so myself. Well, the director and producer both loved the stills and small MOV I sent, so I would cal it a success. If I get clearance from the director I will post a still or MOV for critique.

If I pushed it in RedCine, I can see the noise in the blacks especially, but nothing immediately visible in the areas with the skiers and flares.

Thanks to everyone for their input. Based on the input I decided not to open the shutter up to 24. Even though the skiers were slow, didn't want any psychedelic effects in the shot:)

Scott
Click to expand...


Great,

It would be nice to se at least a still or two.

David
 
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