Shooting my Entire RED Picture M.O.S.?

[Tom Lowe]

Possibly. But a lot of our dialog sequences would be better suited to one boom mic. I think that might be the way to go.

One boom mic, run straight into the RED, and hope for the best, without a mixer?

 

[P Andersson]

years ago i filmed a short where i wanted it all silent and no talking, but the best scenes were improvised and had some actors react so strongly that they started talking,

should have brought microphones,

 

[Joel Kaye]

Possibly. But a lot of our dialog sequences would be better suited to one boom mic. I think that might be the way to go.

One boom mic, run straight into the RED, and hope for the best, without a mixer?

You don't need a mixer. You can map 1 boom to all 4 audio tracks and set the gain at different levels to capture whispers to shouts.

You can probably rig your boom to velcro strap to a tree branch or get propped up by a rock or tree stump. Or just place it right in the scene and hide it with nature.

The other thing I'd do is bring a pair of mics to record ambient tracks. You could grab 2 oktava 012's and put unidirectional caps on and point them in opposite directions. Then you'll have real ambience from the location in stereo. Go test it... it'll add a lot of production value.

I'd certainly try testing some wireless mics.

I'd attempt to get the audio, but not stress out about it knowing you can ADR. You can use reverses and masters for easier lip syncing.

 

[Tom Lowe]

DUDE, I know how to shoot a picture

 

[Joel Kaye]

DUDE, I know how to shoot a picture

No offense intended. Just typing off the top of my head. I wasn't sitting here thinking "this Tom guy needs a lesson". Sorry if it came off that way. I was just thinking out loud.

 

[Mark Thorpe]

Soon.....

Soon.....

I hear REDBOOM is just around the corner so maybe another option?....:shifty:

heh heh!

 

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

Is that gonna come with the Red Gaffer tape?

 

[Mark Thorpe]

.....and a counter balance! Hey, just joshin'. Tom, I think it's a ballsy move to plan such a project. Good luck with it mate.

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[oldphart]

MOS stands for something like "Mit Ohne Sound" or "Mit Out Sound" a (grammatically incorrect) mix of German and English.

That explanation of the origin of MOS is rather unbelievable. The word sequence is not just ungrammatical, it does not occur in the language. There is no equivalent to the English "without" in German, so my best guess is that it would have to be some English-speaking person trying to explain it in very non-fluent German. (Actually, the with- part of without is not related to the word "with" either, according to my History of the English Language.)

 

[Stephen Williams]

That explanation of the origin of MOS is rather unbelievable. The word sequence is not just ungrammatical, it does not occur in the language. There is no equivalent to the English "without" in German, so my best guess is that it would have to be some English-speaking person trying to explain it in very non-fluent German. (Actually, the with- part of without is not related to the word "with" either, according to my History of the English Language.)

Hi,

My understanding was a German camera assistant speaking English.

Stephen

 

[Seung Han]

You should definitely record on location sound. Forget dialogue, how about recreating footsteps, breathing, grunts, moans, sighs, the sound of clothes, the sound of bodies moving fast, wind, water, animals, bodies touching, hitting, rubbing, sounds coming from props, canteens, camp gear, backpacks, flashlights, cooking utensils, camp fires, a character searching his pockets, shuffling his/her feet...it could be an endless process in post.

Once on a short film I had to foley a character walking down a hall into an apartment in one shot because you could hear the DP, boom op and mine's footsteps...that took a full day in a studio before I was happy with it but miserable because of $$$$.

On a low budget, good sound becomes much more important than good images. Do not go down this treacherous path. I have been through it with bad sound, and I have so many Indie Filmmaker friends who have as well. It is absolutely not worth it to do anything MOS... If you pay anyone well in your crew it should be a PRO SOUND MIXER. Everybody else can take a cut, defer pay or share in profits, but find a good sound guy and pay him well...

 

[Seung Han]

DUDE, I know how to shoot a picture

I guess you were more asking specific questions about using sound libraries?

I wouldn't, working in post I always found them generic and uninspiring. Often I would foley myself in a booth for TV shows and commercials, never happy with stock sounds.

I couldn't even imagine recreating every sound for a feature film shot on MOS. Just sounds like a nightmare. I've had major sound issues in post on 30 sec pieces, and have been to hell and back on short narrative pieces running 4 minutes. 70 minutes plus...No way...

 

[Dominic Jones]

Hi,

My understanding was a German camera assistant speaking English.

Stephen

The versions I've heard have all attributed the saying to a German director during the "transplant" of German talent to the US in the 30's. Of course, a German director (or AC, for that matter!) would probably have got the German correct and said "Ohne" rather than "Mit Out"!!! It's a good story though!...

My favorite backronym for MOS is "Mixer Outside Smoking", but I think the most likely real origin is either "Minus Optical Sound" or "Motor Only Sync". I prefer the "phoney" versions, personally!

And re: the original point, whilst dialogue looping might not be an issue, as many people have noted foleying an entire feature from scratch will be a nightmare - I've done a full foley of a 7 min film shot entirely MOS on an old Arri 16ST, and that was a killer - 12 times that work would (a) be a lot more costly than recording I'm sure and (b) a whole lot less fun! My advice - at least record atmos and diagetic audio, even if it's a relatively inexperienced (read cheap!) operator that you get...

 

[Jim Hoffman]

Howdy - I am a sound designer/mixer.

Yes it is possible to recreate the sound of an entire movie. I have done it. It takes an incredible amount of time to get to even the most basic levels of acceptability when dealing with on screen actors and dialogue scenes. Scenes of nature are easily recreated if you have a reasonable library which any good sound guy should own. But dialogue scenes are a different. There is so much going on that it takes real talent, time and finesse to make it believable. Good foley work is key. A good mixing ear a must. A reasonable space to record in, especially if this is all taking place outside, is needed to create these sounds so they don't sound like they were recorded in a small room.

The biggest difficulty I have always had is with the actors and recreating the scenes/emotions/performances that were originally captured. There is a subtlety that can easily be lost when out of the environment and in the studio. So much is in the hands of the actors... so it doesn't really matter what technical wizardry can be performed.

The process of recreating the entire soundtrack is very time consuming. While it is done, you want to make the best movie you can and sound is one of those things that separates the men from the boys. You want to focus your energies on making a great movie... not salvaging what you can. I always say you can't put an asterisk on a film that says *you wouldn't believe what we had to do to even get it this far. Anything you record when you film will be helpful even if it is used only as a reference for the sound designer or actors.

Most often it is the budget and or time that hurts projects like these. 90 minutes is a lot of work.

Good Luck - make the film you want to make!

 

[Russ McDonald]

I have been busted by a PM from an person who will remain nameless, and I must make a public disclosure.

The trailer for Eddies was MOS Tom, but is was a pain in the ass to post.

 

[Seung Han]

Don't boom your own production. Hire a pro sound mixer and a good boom. You should focus 110% on directing, not swinging a boom mic around. You don't want to be distracted from the task at hand when you can just hire at the very least a young kid who wants to work hard on a film set...

 

[Tom Lowe]

I hear REDBOOM is just around the corner so maybe another option?....:shifty:

heh heh!

LMAO, problem solved!

Thanks, guys. I think I will just go ahead and hire a mixer and boom op for the whole roadtrip/show. The more I read these answers, including those from the likes of Hoffman and Seung Han, the more I think my original idea to shoot MOS would be a mistake.

One of the reasons I thought I might be able to do it is because my picture truly does have only a small amount of dialog. The problems I fear more are the ones being mentioned about trying to match foley. If I'm showing a closeup of someone cooking breakfast on a camping stove in the mountains, that could be a huge pain in the ass to do in post sound. How many sound guys are going to have stock sounds of a Coleman camping stove's pump-up valve?

 

[Jim Hoffman]

at least you give yourself a choice. You can then spend your time and money sweetening.

 

[Steve Freebairn]

At the bare minimum record sound straight to the camera.

 

[Adam C Lubkin]

Tom, why not leave the camera crew at home, bring a crack audio team to get you stellar tracks, and use stock footage for the visuals? hehe

Have you considered bringing a sound designer on early and letting him/her determine your audio needs?

In the parks, can your audio crew check in separately, as simple hikers/backpackers (perhaps packing food and clothes for the rest of you while you carry their gear) and then meet up with you on the trail?