Shooting Indie Feature on R1 MX (XLR input questions)

[Ryan Lightbourn]

Hey guys, I'm shooting a low budget feature on my BT Red One MX (with Scarlet as b-cam...audio doesn't matter on that).

The sound guy doesn't trust the Red One's onboard XLR inputs and would rather shoot on a different camera or rent a recorder for his mixer and sync in post.

I've shot a few projects going straight into the Red One from phantom powered boom mics (powered externally) and haven't encountered any issues so far. Our stunt driver also said he hates the Reds because they overheat like crazy...another issue I have yet to encounter on outdoor hot-as-balls Florida shoots.

Are these assumptions based off of old builds/firmware with the Red One, or is the audio known to be typically unstable/unreliable with the current version?

 

[Freya]

The red cameras do have a history of audio issues. In fact the original red 1 camera was updated with a new audio board because the issue was so serious.
I'm guessing you have a modern MX camera which will almost certainly have the audio upgrade. Most of the original Red One M cameras probably do too at this point.

Since the update, sound is a lot better but it is all relative of course and a lot of sound people prefer an external high quality audio recorder. If you do go down that route, I think it's also worth recording a guide track to the camera as it can help with syncing it all up down the line.

Hope that helps a little.

Freya

 

[Stephen Pruitt]

We, personally, have shot two features on the R1-MX, and our camera was rented out for a third feature. Two of these features involved really, really hot outdoor summer shooting, where the temperatures got over 100 in the shade. Here is my advice:

1. You probably won't have any problems, but if you do, just put a courtesy flag over the camera to keep the sun off of it.

2. IF the camera does get too warm and the temperature indicator lights, just make sure you have a few of those flexible cold-packs handy. Put the cold-packs in a plastic bag, and then drape them over the top of the camera. Problem solved. This works every time, and you won't have water dripping on your camera. I'm betting you won't have an issue at all.

3. Regarding audio, the preamps in the R1-MX are fine for feature work. You don't have the ability to ride the gain while shooting, but you won't have a problem with excessive noise. We record double-system using a Sound Devices 788T, but we almost never use the audio recorded via that system. We just run a line-in into the camera and away we go, editing off the RED's audio files. And we have used the RED's preamps many times without the 788T without any issues at all.

Anyone who says that the R1-MX isn't appropriate for shooting an indie feature under adverse climactic conditions (we've also shot in bitter cold!) has absolutely no idea what they are talking about. We've done it before, and we'll do it again.

Stephen

 

[Ryan Lightbourn]

Info greatly appreciated!

I have yet to experience any problems on set. All of the paranoia surrounding Red use seems to stem from the early days.

 

[BRANDON JAMESON]

We LOVE our RED One and the incredibly stable and extraordinary image/audio capture it affords us.

Our practice is to record using a double-system and pump audio from the mixer into the camera too as a guide track (which often does get used as our primary audio tracks for "run-and -gun" or rapid turn-around projects) with excellent results.

Hope this helps.

 

[Christopher Mills]

Record double system, if you want to ensure your chances of getting a distributor to approve the sound quality of your project.
A guide track is useful, but in drama, the inability to ride gain on the audio recorder (the camera, in your case) is a serious problem.
You do have a sound recordist/mixer, don't you?
You do not need to buy your recording package.. they are very available for rent..
even renting a sound devices 702t or 744t would be hugely helpful to you in another way.. they have a very stable timecode clock, and the Red cameras do not.
but even if you go very low end on your off board recorder/mixer setup... (like a SD mix pre D and a tascam dr-100) make very sure you have the slate information read aloud before it is snapped and after the camera and sound are both running..

Protocol should be... 1st AD calls ROLL SOUND,
Sound mixer rolls, reads audible slate info into recorder via slate mic on mixer,
sound mixer calls out "Speed"
Camera Op starts Record, calls out "Camera Speed"
Slate operator reads slate aloud, then says "marker" and snaps the slate where camera has clear focus and sound can hear it.
Camera Operator finds frame, focus for start of shot, then calls out "Camera Set"
THEN director calls action.

This ritual will help your editor organize all the pieces of your footage into a complete film.

Stephen P, I note that your method does get the excellent pre amps of the Sound Devices processing the signal to the camera.. which I recomend.
If "Works in Progress" is yours.. it sounds very good..

 

[Shane Kelly]

I think that you may need a new sound man if he is telling you what camera to use.
I've recorded sound to the r1 but always do double system. It just makes a lot more sense to have the sound recordist make a separate recording as he/she will have more than 2 tracks to work with as well as many more reasons which a proper soundperson will tell you.
I've never had overheating issues with my red one and I think that the cameras that did have issues were early serial numbers.
BTW, I live and work in Texas.
Just treat the camera like a human as in give it shade when it needs it and it'll be fine. Record to the camera as a scratch track but also record double system.

 

[Stephen Pruitt]

Why, thank you, Mr. Mills. I'll take that sort of complement any time. And, yes, "Works in Progress" is our film.

We generally do use the 788T for the preamps, and just run the line-out into the camera's line in, but there are times when we're really crammed for time or short on crew that we just go straight from the mic to the RED One.

Thanks again.

Stephen