Shooting from inside out?

[michael zaletel]

Just curious for tips and recommendations on shooting from within a home or office or automobile during the daytime and maintaining the view outside the windows. I'm hoping there are solutions other than greenscreen or complex compositing. In the past, I've just waited until the "perfect" time of day when I can fairly closely match the light outside to the lit set inside but that isn't always practical. What if you are panning or moving in 3 dimensions with a jib, compositing or green screen replacement becomes really difficult then. I've seen many films where they used that approach but you can tell the "outside" shot doesn't match the perspective of the move so it looks cheap.

Advice appreciated.

-shooter

 

[Justin K Phillips]

I'm far from an expert, but I would think you could somehow filter the windows to match the light levels. Window tint maybe?

Or you could use really, really bright lights inside.

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

A quick way is net on frames like a 20'*20', but then you can't be to close to the window (you'll see it then) and you can't put 2 of them together because it will most probably moraine. You can then put ND filter over the windows and ND them down (make sure they're put on neatly, since any wrinkle will most probably reflect) .

Last option is to light inside but if done carefully and cleverly you won't feel it. Best way is to bounce strong sources so they're soft. If you don't see the ceiling do it off that. It'll most of the time look more natural.

If it's strong sun outside and some of it is shining in I find it better to under expose people slightly - generally I think we see outside as brighter so it's good to keep that balance in camera as well (as much as narrative allows).

Fredrik

 

[michael zaletel]

A quick way is net on frames like a 20'*20', but then you can't be to close to the window (you'll see it then) and you can't put 2 of them together because it will most probably moraine. You can then put ND filter over the windows and ND them down (make sure they're put on neatly, since any wrinkle will most probably reflect) .

Last option is to light inside but if done carefully and cleverly you won't feel it. Best way is to bounce strong sources so they're soft. If you don't see the ceiling do it off that. It'll most of the time look more natural.

If it's strong sun outside and some of it is shining in I find it better to under expose people slightly - generally I think we see outside as brighter so it's good to keep that balance in camera as well (as much as narrative allows).

Fredrik

Great ideas, thanks Fredrik.

-shooter

 

[FractureD]

Yep, only two options really.

Gel the windows or bump up the lights, just watch the heat. Like weirdcrew said, bounce them to keep it *cooler* in the room.

good luck.
- liam

 

[michael zaletel]

Is that it? Having this in the cinematography forum, I was hoping for some feedback from seasoned cinematographers about "how it's done". There have to be more tricks (or common practices) for solving these problems.

Please advise,

-shooter

 

[Mads Rosenkrantz Grage]

I like to expose for the outside, or maybe just overexpose the exterior about a stop. This gives me a nice dark interior that I can either punch up with a big source from the window, or just let the scene play in silhouette against a window.

I never gel windows, it seems "fake" to my eye. I'd rather raise the light level from the window to suit my needs - and then regulate the fill to suit the drama of the scene.

 

[Guy Bryan Holt]

shooting from inside out?

shooting from inside out?

Is that it? Having this in the cinematography forum, I was hoping for some feedback from seasoned cinematographers about "how it's done". There have to be more tricks (or common practices) for solving these problems.

Please advise,

-shooter

When shooting interiors with windows you have two basic problems: color temperature and contrast. Without substantially boosting the light levels inside, when you expose for your talent, your exterior will blow out. If you expose for the exterior to hold detail, your talent will be underexposed and become a near silhouette.

If there are not many windows you can cover the windows with a combination of 85/ND9 gel. The gel both converts the exterior daylight from 5500K to 3200K and knocks down the level outside by three stops, so that you can use tungsten lights inside effectively. But, where a roll of 85/ND9 gel will set you back $140.00, it will be expensive and time consuming to gel the windows if there are a lot of them.

Without gelling the windows to 3200K, using tungsten lights doesn’t make a lot of sense. Balancing tungsten to 5000K is not very efficient because full color temperature blue correction gel (Full CTB) cuts the output of the light by 70% in converting it to 5000K. A 1000W 3200K light becomes a 300W 5000K light when you put Full CTB on it. The output you get after correction is not nearly enough to address the contrast problem you have with the windows uncorrected.

If you can’t gel the windows you probably need at least a 4k HMI par to pick up the interior levels. For example, my company, ScreenLight & Grip, lit a segment of a special two-hour program for British Television’s Channel 5 that presented the same problem that you are facing.

Host June Sarpong interviewing a marine archaeologists
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The show told the story of the Whydah - a pirate ship that sank off Cape Cod nearly 300 years ago. In a unique TV experiment, marine archaeologists on Cape Cod dove to the wreck to salvage pirate booty live on air. In addition to the dive on the wreck, the program also included specially shot dramatic recreations of the story of the Whydah’s notorious pirate captain Black Sam Bellamy. To link between the modern-day adventures of the marine archaeologists and those of Black Sam Bellamy, co-presenter June Sarpong hosted marine archaeologists and pirate historians from a makeshift studio under a tent situated on a bluff overlooking the dive site.

Host June Sarpong interviewing a marine archaeologists
​

Where they wanted the dive site to serve as a backdrop to the makeshift studio, the show's producers wanted the Salvage Ship to be seen clearly on the water in the shots of June and her guests. This requirement created a similar interior/exterior contrast problem to the one you are facing.

The task of balancing interior levels to exterior levels was further complicated by the fact that it was a clear sunny day. We rigged a couple of 4kw and 2.5kw HMI Pars into the frame of the tent in order to get them as close as possible to our subjects, but even then we didn’t have quite enough output to compete against the sun outside.

A 4k HMI Par was rigged overhead as a key for each subject
​

The final ingredient for success was a double net strung across the open backside of the tent. The net further reduced the contrast by bringing the exterior levels down and in line with the pumped-up interior. The trick in situations like this is to strike a delicate balance between the interior and exterior light levels so that the net disappears to the camera without the exterior becoming overexposed and losing important detail – the Salvage Ship out on the water in this case.

Another advantage to netting the background is that it takes the hard edge off of HD. It creates the illusion of a shallower depth of field or the selective focus we associate with film.

A double net was stretched across the open side of the tent facing out onto the water.
​

Where it took a 4k Par on each of the talent, plus a double net across the back, you can see that you need a lot of light. The problem with using 4k par HMIs is usually powering them. If you know how, you can plug them into wall outlets that are available on most locations – but, I should leave that to a latter post.

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip , Boston

 

[Taylor Gill]

Guy,
Very informative post, thanks for the pictures and explaining your setup.

So, as long as the net in the background is far enough away from the subject to be slightly out of focus, the camera wont see the grid pattern of the net?

Thanks,
Taylor

 

[MichaelHalsell]

Guy thanks for the taking the time to walk us through that exercise and elaborating. It was very informative. We have a shoot similar coming up in a few weeks. Give me a fresh approach.

 

[Guy Bryan Holt]

[

Guy thanks for the taking the time to walk us through that exercise and elaborating. It was very informative. We have a shoot similar coming up in a few weeks. Give me a fresh approach.

Since you have a shoot in a few weeks, I have pulled together the promised second post on how to power 4ks off of common wall receptacles. If you can, scout your locations for 240V receptacles. Common 240V wall receptacles, like the dryer outlet in this loft that served as a location for a Bose still shot, can power HMIs as large as 4kw. How it is done depends on whether the 4k has a magnetic or electronic ballast, and whether the electronic ballast has Power Factor Correction (PFC) or not (Arri calls it ALF for Active Line Filter.)

Samples from still shoot for Bose where a 4k HMI par was used to fill talent against windows (Bob Packert Photography)
​

A multi-volt 4k electronic ballast with Power Factor Correction (PFC) will give you the most options. If you are not familiar with Power Factor Correction, a PFC circuit realigns voltage and current and induces a smoother power waveform at the distribution. As a result, the ballast uses power more efficiently with minimized return current and line noise. 4kw electronic ballasts with PFC (like the Power Gems (PG) 425CDP, the Power-to-Light (P2L) 425LVI, and Arri 2.5/4 EB w/ALF) typically have an operating range of 90–125 & 180-250 Volts. At 120V they will draw approximately 37 Amps. At 240V they will draw 18.5 Amps on each leg of a 240V single phase power supply.

These ballasts draw too much at 120V for a 20A wall outlet. But, fortunately there are a number of 240 volt outlets in a typical house, office, or industrial plant in this country that you can also use to power a 4k with PFC electronic ballast. The most common are air conditioner outlets, dryer outlets, range outlets, outlets for large copy machines in offices, and the outlets for motorized equipment in industrial plants. Many of these household and industrial 240V receptacles use a three wire system (no neutral) because they are designed to power single phase motors or heating elements that draw a perfectly balanced load and return no current because the single phase service legs are 180 degrees out of phase and cancel each other out. Where a 4kw HMI with PFC electronic ballast, operating at 240 Volts draws roughly 18.5 Amps on each leg of a single phase 240V circuit, its’ load is well within the capacity of these circuits. You will also be able to operate a non-PFC 4k electronic ballast off of most 240V receptacles like range plugs and dryer plugs because they draw 26 Amps per leg and these circuits are fused at minimally 30 Amps. Where most magnetic 4k ballasts operate at only 120V and draw 40 Amps this method is not an option with magnetic ballasts. Where 4kw ballasts are typically wired with a 120V 60Amp Bates Plug (Stage Pin), you will need a 120V Female Bates to 240V adapter. I keep an assortment of adapters because all these 240V receptacles use a different pin configuration.

4k & 1.2ks HMI Pars powered from 30A/240V dryer outlet through step-down transformer/distro for Bose still shoot.
​

The only way to power 120V 4kw HMI magnetic ballasts on wall receptacles is from 240V circuits through a 240v-to-120v step down transformer like the one my company, ScreenLight & Grip (SL&G), manufactures for the Honda EU6500is generators that we modify. Like it does with the enhanced 240V output of our Honda EU6500is Generator, a step down transformer can be used to convert the 240 volts supplied by these industrial and household 240V receptacles to 120 volts in a single circuit that is the sum of the two single phase legs of 30/50 amps each. In other words, out of a “30A/240v” or a “50A/240v” circuit our transformer makes a 60A/120v circuit that is capable of powering bigger 120V lights, like 4kw HMIs with magnetic ballasts (even Quartz 5ks, mini brutes (5850W) or Six Light Mole Par (6000W)).

There are benefits to be gained by powering even 4kw electronic ballasts (PFC or not) on 240V circuits through a 240v-to-120v step down transformer. For instance, you will be able to run additional large lights (like 1.2kws) on the same circuit if, rather than plugging the 4kw electronic ballast directly into the 240 receptacle (operating it at 240V) and monopolizing it, you plug it in through a transformer (operating it at 120 Volts), you will be left with 25 - 37 Amps to power additional lights on the same circuit. That’s a lot of additional power to waste by plugging the 4k directly into the 240V receptacle. And, since an electronic ballast “ramps up” gradually during the striking phase, you don’t have to leave head room as you would with a magnetic ballast. By operating the light through a transformer you can more fully utilize the capacity of the 240V circuit. For example, since the P2L 4/2.5 LVI ballast at 120V operates a 4k HMI luminary at 37 amps, you will still be able to power an additional 1.2kw HMIs (if operated by P2L 575/1200 ballast (11 Amps)), as well as a 800 Joker HMI (if operated by a P2L 800/1200 ballast (8 Amps)), off of the same circuit. That’s a lot of additional light to be gained by not plugging the 4k directly into the 240V receptacle.

A transformer will also greatly simplify your set electrics by automatically splitting the load of whatever you power through it. As long as you plug lights in through the transformer, you no longer have to carefully balance the load over the two 120V circuit/legs because the transformer does it for you automatically. If, like our 60a Full Power Transformer/Distro, the transformer is outfitted with a 60 Bates receptacle, you can use 60A GPC extension cables, 60-to-60 Splitters, and fused 60A GPC-to-Edison Breakouts (snack boxes) to run power around set - breaking out to 20A Edison outlets at convenient points (rather than one central point.) The best part about using a transformer with a 240V receptacle in this fashion is that no matter where in the distribution system you plug in, the transformer automatically balances the additional load, so that you don't have to. It is so simple that you don’t have to be an experienced electrician to distribute power on set. Use this link for more details about using step-down transformers to power larger lights on interior sets.

A PFC 2.5 & 1.2 HMI Pars, PFC 800w Joker HMI, Kino Flo Flat Head 80, 2 ParaBeam 400s, and a ParaBeam 200 powered by a modified Honda EU6500is through a 60A Full Power Transformer/Distro ​

Everything I have said thus far is also true when it comes to operating HMIs off of portable gas generators with 240V outputs. Where before you could not operate more than a couple 1200W HMIs on portable generators because of their limited 120V power outlets, with a step-down tranformer you can operate bigger lights, or more small lights, on portable gas generaotors than has been possible before. And if the generator is one of our modified Honda EU6500is inverter generators, you will be able to run a continuous load of up to 7500W as long as your HMI and Kino ballasts are Power Factor Corrected. For more information on the use of portable gas generators in motion picture lighting, I suggest you read an article I wrote for my company’s newsletter. The article is available at www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/emailnewsletter_generators.html .

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip , Boston