Setups - how many?

[David Kruta]

Not sure if this is the right forum, but -

I was watching the special features for Pandorum last night (I know, not shot on RED, but that's not the point), and they mentioned that the director liked to see 20-30+ setups per day. I've read that Robert Rodriguez might do even more.

Any of you who have worked on larger budget shows - how can this many setups be accomplished in a day? What defines a "setup"? My instinct tells me that a medium and a closeup with minimal lighting and camera changes counts as 2 different setups, and would explain how that many can be accomplished, for example, covering a long dialogue scene where you're in the same space tweaking lights and angles.

To anyone with experience in many different formats - how does RED compare in time of setup for you?

 

[Peter Hodgins]

how does RED compare in time of setup for you?

I would suspect setup time for RED would be similar to setup time for 35mm or 16mm cameras. ... I don't see how it could be any faster. How do you compare setups? Lights change etc. So just moving a camera ninety degrees to shoot from the other side must be the same for a RED and a 35mm Camera. Compare Cameras by weight ... all other things being equal (lights, etc) two fifty pound rigs and all their accessories probably have similar setup times ... the video vs film difference doesn't enter into the equation ... they both have their idiosyncrasies.

 

[rod bradley]

Yes, as Peter says. 35 set-ups a day on a feature is a good day. My personal record was 47, but it was a too long day and a small fastmoving crew and actors well prepared. That did also included two moves.

 

[Harry Clark]

But the real measure is pages per day, isn't it?
Cheers,
Harry

 

[DCC Erickson]

But the real measure is pages per day, isn't it?
Cheers,
Harry

I thought the real measure was the quality of the work. I guess if you have great actors who can nail it on the first take, and a skilled crew, you can pump out the shots. But it makes me wonder, if your shooting ratio is so low, what are you missing in the performance or direction? I suppose on a huge budget with a lot of pressure, there's not much time to "explore".

 

[Dylan Macleod CSC]

I think the rough rule is that - if the camera placement moves - it is a new set up. I think a lens change would qualify as well.

 

[Joel J. Feigenbaum]

Correct, Dylan. If the camera moves, it's a new set-up. If the lens size changes, it's a new set-up. If you are running an A and B camera on any given take, you net two set-ups on the same take. A huge stunt with 4 different angles on the same take yields 4 setups, etc.

As far as number of set-ups per day, depends on the TV show, the budget, and the type and number of scenes scheduled on the day. In general, the director works very closely with the A.D. to balance each day's work whenever possible. By making detailed shot lists, the director knows roughly how many shots (set-ups) each scene requires. The A.D. then takes the director's shot list for the whole episode and fashions the best possible overal shooting schedule. The A.D. factors in all the variables, such as location availability, actor availability, degree of difficulty of a given scene, etc. At some point, the puzzle is solved and you shoot the grand compromise between art, availability and budget.

Features are a whole other animal. Obviously, bigger budget films shoot lower page counts each day and will in general average fewer set-ups per day (lower page count in general means more time to rehearse and light) than a run and gun indie where page counts and number of set-ups must be by necessity much much higher.

My general rule is: get as many set-ups per day as the page count and story contained within that page count requires. I've had 20 set-up days that have gotten the job done, and a 97 set-up day (in 12 hours) on a particularly demanding action sequence that took place in a wrestling ring. The total page count for the fight was less than 2 pages, but it needed a gazillion pieces to sell the drama, keep it tense and exciting, and put the audience smack in the middle of the action.

In ballpark generalities, I'd say 25 t0 45 setups a day is the average in TV. Features are probably averaging 20 to 30 per day for all the reasons mentioned above.

 

[David Kruta]

I think the rough rule is that - if the camera placement moves - it is a new set up. I think a lens change would qualify as well.

Thanks all, that clears up a lot for me. I just couldn't picture how a small indie crew would be doing fewer setups (5-10) than a huge feature with tons of lights, sets, etc. Now that I see what I was counting as a setup was more the sum of 3-5 "actual" setups, I don't feel like I'm slow!

 

[David Mullen ASC]

John Boorman once wrote in his book "Emerald Forest Diary" that one major set-up per hour for a single-camera shoot was a reasonable rate, though most would say that was a bit slow. But he's basically calculating rehearsal time, then lighting and camera set-up time, and then shooting takes time -- and 15 minutes to block & rehearse, 15 minutes to set-up, and a half-hour of shooting takes and making adjustments isn't unreasonable.

However, most of us have to work a bit faster than that, but it does require that the director consider time spent blocking and rehearsing, and then time spent shooting takes... it's not simply the set-up time in between that accounts for the shooting day. I've had directors tell me that he wanted a lot of set-ups a day but after the first set-up, spent 45 minutes shooting it over and over again. Well, at that rate, there will only be a certain total possible.

Of course, today we "cheat" a bit, we use multiple cameras, we do simple focal-length changes between takes and call it a new set-up, etc.

But on a single-camera show, my general attitude is that the shot list should be limited to 20, which is reasonable and doable -- you can always add a few more, and often you do, so 20 turns into 26 or 30. But if the director brought in a list with 30 set-ups on it, he really means he needs 35 or 40 by the time he's through. Because there is always some extra bit you find you need, maybe an unplanned insert, or a special angle to see some expression in the actor, or some action has to be split between two angles in order to work or look correct, etc.

But I once hit a record of about 85 set-ups using two-cameras for a spelling bee sequence in "Akeelah and the Bee", but this was possible because the whole arena had been pre-lit and I didn't do many changes when the actors were on stage talking into their mic, because the theatrical stage lighting was realistic and motivated.