Seriously- can an scarlet be used for stills?

[paul ross jones]

As a stills photographer, Im trying to figure out whether I should be upgrading to a 1dx, or just keeping my 5dmk2 and buying a scarlet for my motion stuff. I have a medium format system that is for the very high res work, then ill have the 5d for walk around stuff, then i would have the red. I have been doing the odd motion job/AD. but after using the best equipment for years with my stills, I don't like using gear that compromised and not fully professional for motion. the scarlet seems like a very reasonable option for this (or maybe a Redone mx..)

But can it really shoot stills well? I first thought it was a joke thinking that these would be capable of a professional shoot, but the more I think about it the better it sounds- if I can get some answers on a few questions.

Its a small chip so it has less opportunity for back ground blur, and its 600 pixels less on the width than my 5d. also, the base iso is quite low.

but the pros are- almost real time live view (a nice new way to work). I beat you would be able to focus manually with an HD monitor. the bomb evf seems like a good way to shoot- although it will have slight lag.
12fps combined with live view would be great for me as i often shoot lifestyle and people are all over the place. These times I need to focus by eye as canons focus points aren't fast of accurate enough (the focus points don't know where to focus most of the time).

- will the high dynamic range - 2 shot option work at 12fps at 5k?
- what are the shutter speeds?
- can you trigger a flash?
- What is the flash sync speed?
- what software processes the files? do I have different options for this? (I use capture one software for my stills).
- how will I shoot tethered with a scarlet? how do the clients (and me) see the images as we are shooting? I guess with a hdmi/hdsdi feed out i guess..
- Will there be a vertical grip with a button for shooting in the future? (given that most shots are vertical in stills)

Is there anywhere i could download a single 5k stills frame as a raw or tiff to check its quality?

thanks for any help, cheers paul

 

[Brian Iannone]

I don't know the answer to all your questions, so hopefully someone else can chime in here. But, I do know the answer to one... Flash sync is not supported (yet). I've heard that when support for flash sync does come, however, it'll be through the DSMC Side Handle. Support for flash sync itself will come as a firmware update.

When you say, "the high dynamic range - 2 shot option," are you referring to HDRx? If so, HDRx at 5K is supported at a maximum of 6 fps.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I won't try to answer all your other questions, but here is some 5k RAW material for you to play with in RedCine-X

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?66510-So-what-can-you-do-with-a-Scarlet-X...

 

[paul ross jones]

I don't know the answer to all your questions, so hopefully someone else can chime in here. But, I do know the answer to one... Flash sync is not supported (yet). I've heard that when support for flash sync does come, however, it'll be through the DSMC Side Handle. Support for flash sync itself will come as a firmware update.

When you say, "the high dynamic range - 2 shot option," are you referring to HDRx? If so, HDRx at 5K is supported at a maximum of 6 fps.

thanks, HDRx at 6 fps would be sweet- especially those flarey BG's. although I know the 1dx will be offering this- I heard it would only do it in JPEG! lame. I guess at 12fps on the canon it would be able to bracket pretty fast.

anyone heard what shutter they can make the shutter sync as? how does the shutter work- is it a electronic blacked out frame- if so, i guess its pretty fast..

cheers paul

 

[Eric J Kosinski]

Anyway to trigger flashes through sync cables shooting in photo mode?? If so what sync speeds are options? Any connection from Pocketwizard, etc? This is extremely important when most studio setups I see use strobes, not hot lights?

 

[paul ross jones]

Anyway to trigger flashes through sync cables shooting in photo mode?? If so what sync speeds are options? Any connection from Pocketwizard, etc? This is extremely important when most studio setups I see use strobes, not hot lights?

you need strobe a lot as you need to freeze the motion. to do the same with constant light you need high shutter speeds (depending on the subject).
imagine the amount of light needed to get f5.6/ 1000th sec with only 320iso? thats getting into multiple 10k sources by the time you cut the light.
but you can get those figures with a single strobe - and a lot faster than 1000th sec (often up to 10,000th sec).

I do shoot along side a lot of TVCs when they are using red. But they hardly ever get a sharp image as the shutter speed on the reds are at 50th sec, and that is way too slow for even shooting a slightly moving portrait.. I guess because of this I get hired to shoot along side (even with shrinking budgets). When they are shooting red in dark conditions, I am needing to shoot at 250th at 4 x the iso as the reds are.

But the speed of the shutter controlling the ambient is very important or the flash gets less and less useful.

What are the fastest full shutter speeds of a epic/scarlet? an epic has 300fps, so it should go very high. But it will be the clean "complete" image with out the start or end of the frame that will decide its flash sync.

cheers paul

 

[Chris Luker]

There's a whole part of the forums here about using Epic for photo shoots: here
Scarlet can do 12fps in 5k... should be good enough for stills no?

 

[Eric J Kosinski]

you need strobe a lot as you need to freeze the motion. to do the same with constant light you need high shutter speeds (depending on the subject).
imagine the amount of light needed to get f5.6/ 1000th sec with only 320iso? thats getting into multiple 10k sources by the time you cut the light.
but you can get those figures with a single strobe - and a lot faster than 1000th sec (often up to 10,000th sec).

I do shoot along side a lot of TVCs when they are using red. But they hardly ever get a sharp image as the shutter speed on the reds are at 50th sec, and that is way too slow for even shooting a slightly moving portrait.. I guess because of this I get hired to shoot along side (even with shrinking budgets). When they are shooting red in dark conditions, I am needing to shoot at 250th at 4 x the iso as the reds are.

But the speed of the shutter controlling the ambient is very important or the flash gets less and less useful.

What are the fastest full shutter speeds of a epic/scarlet? an epic has 300fps, so it should go very high. But it will be the clean "complete" image with out the start or end of the frame that will decide its flash sync.

cheers paul

For the photographic work I do, especially portrait work, I'm typically ok at 125th with a IS lens or even 80th with a lightweight prime. Since flash/strobe freezes the image, I can shoot at a 60th for non moving or super slow moving subjects with the use of strobes so I could be fine shooting stills in some situations on Scarlet based off of this info, however,

Is there a way to attach a sync cord or wireless device to fire strobes from the Epic/Scarlet ? If not I will have to use hard/hot lights, but would prefer to use my strobe kits. Any word on whether a sync cable or firing of strobes from the camera would help?

 

[SeanBrown]

I was on a 5k Epic Still's shoot and it was amazing.. Yes it works for stills! Scarlet will as well.

 

[paul ross jones]

There's a whole part of the forums here about using Epic for photo shoots: here
Scarlet can do 12fps in 5k... should be good enough for stills no?

thanks for the link. ill look for info there..

the new 1dx is only 18mp, so 5184 x 3456, so its almost exactly the res as a scarlet- although the scarlet has a fair bit smaller area to squeeze the pixels into.

cheers paul

 

[patrick j. clarke]

It's a APS-H 14MP sensor, so you get the same DOF as the 1D MkIV, but not the same as a Medium Format camera.

It's got 13.5 stops of latitude without HDRx, which is awesome. 18 stops with HDRx.

Shutter speeds are 2sec to 1/8000th

You first process your R3D RAW files in RED Cine-X Pro (think of this as your ACR, Aperture, Lightroom, or Capture One software, non-destructive post) but then you can export a 16 bit TIFF file for further exploration in Photoshop, etc. Oh, and RED Cine-X is free.

With a RedMote you can have the camera any way you want and control it, so maybe a VC isn't necessary?

 

[Paramon Ivanovich]

I won't try to answer all your other questions, but here is some 5k RAW material for you to play with in RedCine-X

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?66510-So-what-can-you-do-with-a-Scarlet-X...

thank you very much Mr Groven!
amazing gr scr shot!

 

[Eric J Kosinski]

It's a APS-H 14MP sensor, so you get the same DOF as the 1D MkIV, but not the same as a Medium Format camera.

It's got 13.5 stops of latitude without HDRx, which is awesome. 18 stops with HDRx.

Shutter speeds are 2sec to 1/8000th

You first process your R3D RAW files in RED Cine-X Pro (think of this as your ACR, Aperture, Lightroom, or Capture One software, non-destructive post) but then you can export a 16 bit TIFF file for further exploration in Photoshop, etc. Oh, and RED Cine-X is free.

With a RedMote you can have the camera any way you want and control it, so maybe a VC isn't necessary?

This is great info. 1/8000th shooting stills at 5K sounds great. Does anyone know if you can use strobes through a sync cable or wireless transmitter to trigger strobes?

 

[paul ross jones]

It's a APS-H 14MP sensor, so you get the same DOF as the 1D MkIV, but not the same as a Medium Format camera.

It's got 13.5 stops of latitude without HDRx, which is awesome. 18 stops with HDRx.

Shutter speeds are 2sec to 1/8000th

You first process your R3D RAW files in RED Cine-X Pro (think of this as your ACR, Aperture, Lightroom, or Capture One software, non-destructive post) but then you can export a 16 bit TIFF file for further exploration in Photoshop, etc. Oh, and RED Cine-X is free.

With a RedMote you can have the camera any way you want and control it, so maybe a VC isn't necessary?

my calculations is that its close to the 18mp of the 1dx's top of frame size. is it a squeezed format, i.e. like this-

so the vertical size is small? If so, vertical shots are going to be heavily cropped on an A4 page.

paul

 

[Christopher Barrett]

Paul,

My work is still more weighted toward stills and I am just beginning to test my Epic against my Phase One P65+. As I continue testing, I'll compile some good sample images, but I've already posted a fair amount of Epic stills throughout the forum. I haven't seen any camera that can touch the Epic's dynamic range. It's just phenomenal. You do often have to really bolster mid tone contrast to achieve the same snap you'd expect from a still camera, but that's easier than trying to bring back hilights. In my testing, the Reds don't have the same detail or clarity as my P65+ or 5d2 but I haven't tried to equalize the ISO's which would have huge impact on this test.

Now to answer a few questions...

There is a standard PC style strobe sync connector on the DSMC Side Handle. It isn't enabled yet. The side handle has electronic contacts on the base which I can only assume are for a forthcoming bottom handle for vertical shooting. Currently the slowest shutter is 1sec. but the images are much cleaner at faster exposures. To capture strobe, I simply let the camera roll and fire the strobe with a wireless trigger. Later I pull the frame that caught the strobe. Red have reported that the camera will not be compatible with Short Flash Durations because of the way the sensor reads out... rendering half frames. My Profoto D1's work flawlessly... even when dialed way down (which should yield very short durations).

The workflow is totally different. I shoot stills tethered as well and am loathe to change. For Epic (or Scarlet) a field monitor will have to replace your C1P previews and you would shoot to Mag, then review images in RC-X. I would love to be able to tether the Epic straight into C1Pro or RC-X, but LiveView on a 17" or 24" Field monitor is pretty damn nice... the only thing that's missing is being able to zoom in to 100%, but for that I pull the Mag to the Laptop.

-CB

Vertical Crop? Just turn the camera vertical

 

[paul ross jones]

Paul,

My work is still more weighted toward stills and I am just beginning to test my Epic against my Phase One P65+. As I continue testing, I'll compile some good sample images, but I've already posted a fair amount of Epic stills throughout the forum. I haven't seen any camera that can touch the Epic's dynamic range. It's just phenomenal. You do often have to really bolster mid tone contrast to achieve the same snap you'd expect from a still camera, but that's easier than trying to bring back hilights. In my testing, the Reds don't have the same detail or clarity as my P65+ or 5d2 but I haven't tried to equalize the ISO's which would have huge impact on this test.

Now to answer a few questions...

There is a standard PC style strobe sync connector on the DSMC Side Handle. It isn't enabled yet. The side handle has electronic contacts on the base which I can only assume are for a forthcoming bottom handle for vertical shooting. Currently the slowest shutter is 1sec. but the images are much cleaner at faster exposures. To capture strobe, I simply let the camera roll and fire the strobe with a wireless trigger. Later I pull the frame that caught the strobe. Red have reported that the camera will not be compatible with Short Flash Durations because of the way the sensor reads out... rendering half frames. My Profoto D1's work flawlessly... even when dialed way down (which should yield very short durations).

The workflow is totally different. I shoot stills tethered as well and am loathe to change. For Epic (or Scarlet) a field monitor will have to replace your C1P previews and you would shoot to Mag, then review images in RC-X. I would love to be able to tether the Epic straight into C1Pro or RC-X, but LiveView on a 17" or 24" Field monitor is pretty damn nice... the only thing that's missing is being able to zoom in to 100%, but for that I pull the Mag to the Laptop.

-CB

Vertical Crop? Just turn the camera vertical

hi chris, i remember you from the LL forums.. i'm not looking at replacing the contax 645/ p65+, only to shoot different stuff. high res comp work that has lots of post i need the res of the 60 mega pixels. but fast shooting- "slice of life" fast shooting I'm happy with less res (although more is better for the very crops taken out of horizontal shots).

funny about the big monitor thing checking sharpness. we made a discovery a while back (when forced into shooting small jpegs into canon software/ raws to card as the transfer times where too slow with the easy macbook pros USBs)- we sent very small jpegs to the computer for quick reference- about 1/4 the size. We found that we were 100% accurate in seeing the sharpness on these- even though we weren't looking at the files that were 4 x the size. eyes are very good at picking sharpness- without needing anywhere near 100% percent view.

so, I'm hoping that you will be able to focus sharp with a 720 HD monitor- even though the image its self is 5k not the 1-2k thats showing on the monitor.

paul

p.s

sorry about my number of posts on this- I'm getting quite excited about the scarlets possibilities!


p.s.s

I was thinking of the crop being a lot even with a vertical orientation-

 

[Bob Gundu]

As for strobes for the Epic. I believe LED short burst strobes are in the cards for future RED products.