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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Serious Questions about a "new deal"

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Umm, amidst the noise here:

Umm, amidst the noise here:

Jannard: 6. We expect assembly of production cameras to begin in modest amounts by early February and full ramp up by early April... before NAB.

That deserves its own post/thread no?

Jannard said:
1. We have bent over backwards for our customers. We aren't stopping that now.

2. I have said all along EPIC is a difficult trick. Do you see any other companies with such aggressive specs in a matchbox?

3. We have added features (like HDRx™) along the way that no one signed up for... no charge on EPIC.

4. You can have your deposit back any time we let you down, you find a better solution... or you are just pissed off.

5. If we do NOT do this new program (of a handful of cameras) you will not get your camera any quicker. Might even be a week later since we won't have the assembly data.

6. We expect assembly of production cameras to begin in modest amounts by early February and full ramp up by early April... before NAB.

BTW... if we DO do this program, a handful would be shipped in Dec. and more in January.

Hope that helps... now go eat something and calm down. Happy Thanksgiving. :-)

Jim
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Jannard said:
1. We have bent over backwards for our customers. We aren't stopping that now.

2. I have said all along EPIC is a difficult trick. Do you see any other companies with such aggressive specs in a matchbox?

3. We have added features (like HDRx™™) along the way that no one signed up for... no charge on EPIC.

4. You can have your deposit back any time we let you down, you find a better solution... or you are just pissed off.

5. If we do NOT do this new program (of a handful of cameras) you will not get your camera any quicker. Might even be a week later since we won't have the assembly data.

6. We expect assembly of production cameras to begin in modest amounts by early February and full ramp up by early April... before NAB.

BTW... if we DO do this program, a handful would be shipped in Dec. and more in January.

Hope that helps... now go eat something and calm down. Happy Thanksgiving. :-)

Jim
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As Expected ;)

Sure look forward to an EPIC Christmas if any of my Reservation qualify ;)
 
And please let me so bold as to say "thank you" to Michael Hastings for being courageous to post his thoughts and questions on such a loaded subject.

Moving on...
 
Johnny Friday said:
David Lagos,
I'd sure hate to be your kid. not very rationale and tempered. But to each his own. now put your belt back on and go kick a can.
Click to expand...


Hahaha. Thanks, but kids are actually way down the line for me.

That post came from a "let's all calm down and there are options for those who don't want to" point of view.

I just believe some people on some of these forums and threads have gotten used to getting such great information and updates from Red. As a result, they have been spoiled into expecting more than they should.

Red will deliver, all that's needed is a bit of patience that's all.

Pero tranquilo, buey. No te enojes! Todos estamos en la misma fila. Saludos a nuestros hermanos en Mexico.
 
A Timeline yeah!!!!!!
 
Anson Fogel said:
Jannard: 6. We expect assembly of production cameras to begin in modest amounts by early February and full ramp up by early April... before NAB.

That deserves its own post/thread no?
Click to expand...

I'm really wondering if it is then still possible to have S35 Scarlets shipping before or at NAB... and in which quantities.
It's normal that it's more quiet on the Scarlet front, because Epic is first in line, but just being curious.
Sorry for going slightly off-topic.
 
I would not brand Mr. Hastings with having a bad attitude he simply has an opinion and has expressed it as others have done.

Conversation from all points of view is good.


I for one am of the opinion that Jim and Red are trying to everything they can do to get Epic into the hands of Red users as quickly as possible and this hand built option certainly is exactly that...an option, as Jim has stated.

As for the unfairness of the hand built option. When tattoo was announced and only a select group would receive them, there was no outcry of foul then.
When the other stages were announced requiring a deposit to hold a stage 2 reservation, there was no outcry of foul from those who could not put the money down, They simply moved to stage 3.

As Jim has stated and it bears repeating, Owners will be called, IN ORDER, to be offered what I believe and others have stated, is a pseudo tattoo camera,
a program no one had problems with before.

As to whether the camera can perform, Jim stated long ago that Epic would be released only when it was bullet proof. Will there be issues...maybe, but where not talking Red one circa 2007 here and again you can always wait for
production line Epic with no delay in original schedule.

I am all about the options, my money, my choice. Not being a fanboy just like the options I am presented with.

Thanks Jim and crew for always thinking of the customers first.
 
David Baumber said:
Thanks for the update Jim. I can wait for stage 4. Just had a quiet moment with my Sony XDCam, there were tears but she knows it has to happen. I'm going to have a special shoot with her in the new year, a kind of goodbye really before the battery comes the back and I lay her back in the travel bag.

BTW I think this gesture of individual builds is another example of why Jim is such an inspiration - do you see Sony or Canon ever doing this? Of course not. Please people let's praise him. I think the wine must be flowing today!
Click to expand...

this is too funny made me laugh...sorry that was insensitive of me....I am sorry for your loss.
 
1. It's ok stage 2 people would have some special treatment due to their serial number.

2.There should be a way for anyone that has that stage 2 , or stage 3 reservation , to pay for a handbuilt system , but also keep their current stage 2 or stage 3 reservation number,

due to the fact, that in case (because you won't be able to return the system in any case I thought??) ; you really need a bug fixed system ( but only you know how good Epic is behaving right now already) you're not put on a waiting list and with a camera that's not behaving like it should on a heavy production and under pressure. But this specific subject is completely unknown by us right now, because I repeat , only you guys now what the Epic is standing for right now??? we only can hope it's ok already and almost bulletproof.

3.Would be great if you are willing to pay a lot more, you can have acces to a handbuilt system if you'd like so now. That only demands more employees to put them together, but I'm sure that might not be a real problem if you can charge a lot more.
 
Hey, this is an open forum and what RED wanted....to hear from their customers. I'd point out that Michael is an early adopter as well and those are merely his thoughts as everyone here has theirs. I see nothing at all derogatory aimed at RED. In fact the contrary. Open forum produces a lot of conversation that will yield (in many cases) valuable customer feedback. Nonsense like "shut the hell up and just wait" is merely comical and not what RED intended when they began this different open company forum. And not everyone here that has posted may be in the same boat. Some of us are early adopters and believed from the beginning and then there are those of us that believed it again and threw down for Epic stage 2. So, sure you have some anxious folks out there. RED is working their ass off. And you merely have folks posting (in my opinion) a thread that brings about a converstation on where the red customer base stands at the moment and I'm sure RED never intended to be this far back of schedule, but some are starting to ask what's happening---feed us a bone on some expectations. I've heard some really weird things out here from producers that expect to be shooting RED in January etc....So theres a lot of bad info floating around.
Now some words from Jim and i'd bet there are a lot of folks that will put their pistols back in the holster and calm down. In my case, i'd put out for two stage 2 cameras (and i'll point out that i agreed to the terms therewith meaning who knows when we get a camera) But that said, some news on production was and is expected. Was a matter of time.
....I'd point out that there's a bashes here that i don't think are necessary. We all know who we are as stage 2 participants and easy to bash or be a lap dog when you are either not onboard with stage 2 or awaiting scarlet. The original poster is not a RED basher and has walked the plank to be so bold as post like this. Jim and RED don't have to agree or take into consideration what he proposes. He's just a customer and i'm sure RED likes knowing what their customer base is thinking.
....now, i sure hope my epics don't have bugs installed in them to shut down after 13 months.

No te preocupas joven. Estamos tranquilos. Tengo un inversion con RED y nada mas quiero saber donde estamos.
 
I don't have any issue with Michael's concerns or his point of view... I asked for it. The only thing I take exception to is the part about us being "unfair" and the inference of trying to "slip one over" on our customers. We are too open for our own good most of the time... this one just got under my skin. I'm sure that was not the intention of the original post.

In the lack of information, it is easy to whip up hysteria. I guess it is my job not to let that happen. PLEASE READ NEXT.

We have been pretty good at meeting product expectations but terrible at meeting deadlines and dates. The only reason I can point to is the EXTREME complexity of this project. We have discussed EPIC with the largest and most significant players in the electronics industry... they all think we are nuts. We have had to help fabricators solve problems because they have never seen this type of complexity before, especially in the size of the package. We heard "don't do that" 100's of times in the past two years... from very smart guys. But we have finished the project with even more capability than originally promised. You business types will appreciate this. We are late which means that development took a lot longer than expected. That means we spent a lot more money on development than expected... after we priced the camera. No biggie on my end. But please keep this in mind when even thinking about complaining about price for anything we sell. You can complain about us being late, bugs or that you don't like our marketing approach... just not price.

After reviewing this thread I am more convinced than ever we should build these machined, hand built bodies. I'll announce a price (probably around $45K just for the brain) and see if anyone wants them. I will probably build some anyway because it is in our customers best interests. We will learn a lot from the process. If no one wants them, I'll keep them for myself...

No hards feelings about the thread, the comments and the banter. It is all for the best.

Jim
 
Im sure NO ONE who knows anything about how this all works thinks anything here is unfair. You have always looked after the people that helped get this ball rolling in the first place.

Presume if this programme goes ahead, bespoke Epic owners would have access to at least some accessories early too?

Jas

_
 
Ok, important for me: there is a timeline. Still things could go wrong a little and delay things a little but it least it would be production problems now.
Whatever Jim wants to build he will build and there are buyers out there probably. (If you build it, they will...) Not many can justify 20k more for 3 maybe 5 month until their production epic would arrive. (Still we don't know how many are ordered and how many will be build in February or April: actually that is an interesting question: how many will be build per month? What is the goal there?)

A question out of curiosity: Jim, you announced once that you would slow down development (at least not push it) because of the economy. Do you still think that you could have made it quicker? Or would still have taken that long even if you had pushed it like you first thought? Would it have been the same EPIC at the end?
 
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Jannard said:
I don't have any issue with Michael's concerns or his point of view... I asked for it. The only thing I take exception to is the part about us being "unfair" and the inference of trying to "slip one over" on our customers. We are too open for our own good most of the time... this one just got under my skin. I'm sure that was not the intention of the original post.

In the lack of information, it is easy to whip up hysteria. I guess it is my job not to let that happen. PLEASE READ NEXT.

We have been pretty good at meeting product expectations but terrible at meeting deadlines and dates. The only reason I can point to is the EXTREME complexity of this project. We have discussed EPIC with the largest and most significant players in the electronics industry... they all think we are nuts. We have had to help fabricators solve problems because they have never seen this type of complexity before, especially in the size of the package. We heard "don't do that" 100's of times in the past two years... from very smart guys. But we have finished the project with even more capability than originally promised. You business types will appreciate this. We are late which means that development took a lot longer than expected. That means we spent a lot more money on development than expected... after we priced the camera. No biggie on my end. But please keep this in mind when even thinking about complaining about price for anything we sell. You can complain about us being late, bugs or that you don't like our marketing approach... just not price.

After reviewing this thread I am more convinced than ever we should build these machined, hand built bodies. I'll announce a price (probably around $45K just for the brain) and see if anyone wants them. I will probably build some anyway because it is in our customers best interests. We will learn a lot from the process. If no one wants them, I'll keep them for myself...

No hards feelings about the thread, the comments and the banter. It is all for the best.

Jim
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Awesome, can you make a video of how one of these is built step by step?
 
Respect for reinventing yourself Jim. iMHO you are one of the most professional if not the most professional founder/inventor I have ever met.

I really think you should take it into consideration to open an option for anybody who really believes in Epic right now, need 1 or more camera's , is willing to pay a little more than stage 2 or stage 3 reservation holders, due to the custom job, without hurting anyone else in the line, but is dying to shoot incredible stuff with it...
 
Felix K. said:
Ok, important for me: there is a timeline. Still things could go wrong a little and delay things a little but it least it would be production problems now.
Whatever Jim wants to build he will build and there are buyers out there probably. (If you build it, they will...) Not many can justify 20k more for 3 maybe 5 month until their production epic would arrive. (Still we don't know how many are ordered and how many will be build in February or April: actually that is an interesting question: how many will be build per month? What is the goal there?)

A question out of curiosity: Jim, you announced once that you would slow down development (at least not push it) because of the economy. Do you still think that you could have made it quicker? Or would still have taken that long even if you had pushed it like you first thought? Would it have been the same EPIC at the end?
Click to expand...


Personally , I think, It has never been Jim's interest in slowing down the project, but instead, they have reinvented the system from Scratch and have added incredible promissing features like HDRx, So I think it's quiet unrespectfull to claim it's their fault and now their looking to make any profit of it and using it as an excuse.... They actually have never slowed down the way you mention...
 
Jannard said:
I'll announce a price (probably around $45K just for the brain) and see if anyone wants them.
Click to expand...

Amazing!!!

If money is not a problem you'll get 100% handmade EPIC before Christmas.

Now, that's a deal around $45K for EPIC in December with a possibility to get

fast that extra investment back before the official shipment starts in April/May 2011...

I'm sure there is already a long line in front of RED HQ...!!!???
 
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