SENSOR COVERAGE in Scarlet-X vs. Red-One ???

[George D.]

I'm getting a little confused on this.

According to the Scarlet-X and Red-One specs, it looks to me like the 4K sensor coverage for both cameras is the same. But, looking at some of the posts, now I'm not so sure. If it is the same size Mysterium-X sensor, why wouldn't it be the same lens coverage?

Does anyone have a graph or scale that shows the comparison between the two?

I ask this, because I want to use the same cine and still lenses on the Scarlet-X as I have used on the Red-One with the same coverage.

And, if it IS the same coverage, I can only assume that in 4K, the Scarlet-X cannot utilize 16mm or Super16mm lenses anymore than the Red-One can.

Thanks.

.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

It's the same Mysterium-X sensor in both so a 4096 pixel width area is the same size.

 

[Benoît-Joan Clariana-Roig]

It's the same Mysterium-X sensor in both so a 4096 pixel width area is the same size.

4K in 2:1 or 1,90 ? I remember some 4K shots on R1 with 2:1 ratios.

The 2:1 format is only available for 5K shoots on EPIC ?

 

[Deanan]

Pixel size is the same between R1, R1MX, Epic, and Scarlet to FOV for the same format on any of the cameras is the same.

 

[Carter Cammack]

Deanan, can you confirm if ANY S16mm cinema lenses can be used on the Scarlet at 3K or 2K?
A lot of people on the forums are assuming this. One look at a Cooke makes me think the mount is too deep, like some Leica lenses.

If we can confirm that we CAN use S-16 glass, that would be awesome.

 

[D Fuller]

I can tell you for sure that a Zeiss 11-110 S16 lens works great on an Epic. It covers more than 2k, but not quite 3k except maybe at the long end. At the narrowest point of its image circle, it covers a 16x9 frame that's 2400 pixels wide. That gives you resolution in the Alexa ballpark when down sampled to 1920x1080.

The 25mm and 16 mm Zeiss MK I superspeeds cover more. Very close to 3K, but not quite. The Bad news is that the 12mm and 9.5mm don't clear the OLPF. The Angineux 5.9mm also won't clear the OLPF on an Epic.

 

[Vincent Thomas]

Im also very interested by this discussion. I'm one of this person who has been seriously disapointed by the cropping limitation of the Scarlet, in a way i will have prefer an option to shoot without Raw but sensor uncropped! For a 20k shooting package investissement, im not sure im decided because of that cropping and overcrank limitation... something which could make me change my mind is the eventual option one day to overpass that in one way or another (without changing the brain off course) and this possibility to use S16zoom when shooting in 3 or 2k.


Do my words and frustrations make sense ?
Are more people able to comment on that? Zeiss 11-110 S16?

vincent*

 

[George D.]

Im also very interested by this discussion. I'm one of this person who has been seriously disapointed by the cropping limitation of the Scarlet, in a way i will have prefer an option to shoot without Raw but sensor uncropped! For a 20k shooting package investissement, im not sure im decided because of that cropping and overcrank limitation... something which could make me change my mind is the eventual option one day to overpass that in one way or another (without changing the brain off course) and this possibility to use S16zoom when shooting in 3 or 2k.

Do my words and frustrations make sense ?
Are more people able to comment on that? Zeiss 11-110 S16?

vincent*

OK, now I'm getting confused again.

WHAT cropping limitation? I thought the sensor and frame was the same as the Red-One in 4K.

Now, is that true or not, or am I missing something here (which is probably the case).

I just need to be SURE that the Scarlet-X will give me the SAME resolution, size, pixels, and quality as the Red-One. TRUE or FALSE ?

Thanks.

.

 

[laurent delaroziere]

OK, now I'm getting confused again.

WHAT cropping limitation? I thought the sensor and frame was the same as the Red-One in 4K.

Now, is that true or not, or am I missing something here (which is probably the case).

I just need to be SURE that the Scarlet-X will give me the SAME resolution, size, pixels, and quality as the Red-One. TRUE or FALSE ?

Thanks.

.

True. Same as red one. Even same image as epic in 5k 12fps. But as on epic or red one, it's not resizing the whole image when going to 3k or 2k, it's just using the center part of the censor corresponding to the size of the choosen resolution. Like cropping in photoshop an image instead of resizing it. No difference with epic/red one. Better quality than red one in fact at 4k (in theory). Super16 lenses can cover the center of the censor for lower resolutions. That's what people are debating.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

i will have prefer an option to shoot without Raw but sensor uncropped!

The entire sensor is 5K so I'm not sure what you are asking, you want the camera to convert 5K RAW to 5K RGB for you??? That would be 3X the data to record over RAW.

Even 4K is a cropped area of the 5K sensor, and 3K and 2K are an even smaller area of the sensor.

 

[Vincent Thomas]

Well that's a big difference... If you shooting inside a room for example which require a fast 20mm for your framing to be right (in 35mm still lens) then you may have a bloody hard time to find the lens to have the same FOV on a Scarlet, especially if you want to overcrank at a humble 60fps which is still far away from be able to achieve a slow motion effet but could maybe be enough for your purpose

 

[George D.]

The entire sensor is 5K so I'm not sure what you are asking, you want the camera to convert 5K RAW to 5K RGB for you??? That would be 3X the data to record over RAW.

Even 4K is a cropped area of the 5K sensor, and 3K and 2K are an even smaller area of the sensor.

Will that make 5K still images shot with the Scarlet-X even higher quality than you'd get from any of the high-end DSLRs on the market? I would certainly assume so. It would seem to me that it would be approaching a medium format image in quality and size. Hasseblad look out !! The guys at RDC are on your ass!

.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

Will that make 5K still images shot with the Scarlet-X even higher quality than you'd get from any of the high-end DSLRs on the market? I would certainly assume so.

Not sure why you'd assume that, many DSLR's also shoot around 5K RAW. A Canon T3i Rebel can shoot a 5184 x 3456 RAW picture. A Canon 5D Mk.II can shoot a 5616 x 3744 RAW picture.

 

[Carter Cammack]

The "usefull" motion modes on the Scarlet are 4K and 3K. 5K at 12fps max is for timelapse and stills.
4K uses less of the sensor, making your lenses, "longer." The ratio goes from 1.3 to 1.6.
A 30mm lens goes from, effectively a 39mm to a 48mm.

But a lot of us want to use 3K to get raw capture without huge files.
3K captures a 4.97MP frame using 36% of the 5K sensor area. The file size will be 56% the size of 4K.

However, the increasing crop factor makes a 35mm lens into a 70mm. So we are looking at options.

We need to know if S-16 glass is an option here. Some say it is. Some say some of it is, but not all.

 

[George D.]

Not sure why you'd assume that, many DSLR's also shoot around 5K RAW. A Canon T3i Rebel can shoot a 5184 x 3456 RAW picture. A Canon 5D Mk.II can shoot a 5616 x 3744 RAW picture.

Sorry, but I wasn't "assuming". I was just asking. I know nothing about Canon products. I'm a strictly Nikon man myself.

Just curious David. Red is moving so fast, and the guys there are so sharp, I was just thinking that they'd be giving other manufacturers a run for their money.

BTW - One thing I don't understand, is all this hype about Canon. Nikon glass is every bit as good, if not better than anything Canon ever made. And, I really don't think the MarkII could do anything the Nikon D3 couldn't, and it even has a better ISO range.



.

 

[Carter Cammack]

Sorry, but I wasn't "assuming". I was just asking. I know nothing about Canon products. I'm a strictly Nikon man myself.
BTW - One thing I don't understand, is all this hype about Canon. Nikon glass is every bit as good, if not better than anything Canon ever made. And, I really don't think the MarkII could do anything the Nikon D3 couldn't, and it even has a better ISO range.



.

I understand that the only reason we don't have Nikon mounts now is the electronic iris control. Cannon lenses still have external stop rings. If you want f-stop control using a Nikon lens, you need a mechanism in the mount adapter or electronic control via camera.

The 14-24 2.8 "Crystal Ball" ED-AF is my favorite.

 

[D Fuller]

I understand that the only reason we don't have Nikon mounts now is the electronic iris control. Cannon lenses still have external stop rings. If you want f-stop control using a Nikon lens, you need a mechanism in the mount adapter or electronic control via camera.

The 14-24 2.8 "Crystal Ball" ED-AF is my favorite.

That's not quite right. The reason the Nikon mount is taking longer is that Nikons have a motor in the mount that controls iris, rather than that motor being in the lens, as it is in the Canon. Than means that it requires not just electronic control, but a motor to drive it as well.

Yes, the 14-24 is one of the best. One thing though -- think about how to deal with the fact that you can't put NDs on the front of that lens. You'll have to have a suitable matte box for that..

 

[D Fuller]

OK, now I'm getting confused again.

WHAT cropping limitation? I thought the sensor and frame was the same as the Red-One in 4K.

Now, is that true or not, or am I missing something here (which is probably the case).

I just need to be SURE that the Scarlet-X will give me the SAME resolution, size, pixels, and quality as the Red-One. TRUE or FALSE ?

TRUE. 100% true.

And better than true, really.
The resolution, size, and pixels will be the same. If it shares the same signal processing as the Epic, quality will be better, because there is greater bit depth.

 

[Vincent Thomas]

Will that make 5K still images shot with the Scarlet-X even higher quality than you'd get from any of the high-end DSLRs on the market? I would certainly assume so. It would seem to me that it would be approaching a medium format image in quality and size. Hasseblad look out !! The guys at RDC are on your ass!

.

You are funny...

 

[Jonathan Seaborn]

Im also very interested by this discussion. I'm one of this person who has been seriously disapointed by the cropping limitation of the Scarlet, in a way i will have prefer an option to shoot without Raw but sensor uncropped! For a 20k shooting package investissement, im not sure im decided because of that cropping and overcrank limitation... something which could make me change my mind is the eventual option one day to overpass that in one way or another (without changing the brain off course) and this possibility to use S16zoom when shooting in 3 or 2k.


Do my words and frustrations make sense ?
Are more people able to comment on that? Zeiss 11-110 S16?

vincent*

Yes it make sense! I bought quality lens and
I want full frame camera!

So the crop factor in 4k is close to the crop
Factor of the canon 7d??!!?

1.6 x
this is the point that turn me...
When i pay for wide angle lens
I want all the edge feeling of it!
Dont need 5k 12fps that i will never use
A sensor 4k or 3k full frame as 5d

... Just my opinion!