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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Sekonic Profiling

I'm sorry if this sounds ignorant, but why are you doing all this?
 
Tail Ends said:
Red staff out there. ATTENTION. Robin's comments seem very informed. What is Red's position on this exercise. I know some companies, and I belive Abel Cine is one, will take your camer in for adjustments. I have no idea of what this costs. Can Red do this as a new profit center and service for owners? Seems pretty inportant to me, but my time might be better used elsewhere.
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Not really sure how this relates to exposure profiling.



SF Geek said:
I'm sorry if this sounds ignorant, but why are you doing all this?
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So I can walk around and see where different areas of a scene will be in terms of exposure. Also, so I can lend my metre to DPs who are used to lighting film with a lightmetre when they are pre-lighting a set.
 
Thanks for the offer Shawn.

I think I have found the best way to do the tests and will do them properly over 2 days next week.

I managed to get a profile from the tests that I did last week, but that has created more questions than answers.

It’s hard to know what to profile. It would be quite easy to stay in redspace and send the tiffs straight out of RedAlert. That wouldn’t be a profile of the sensor, but maybe we don’t want that.

Then what about the 0.4 EV protection? Do we pull that back to get more in the highlights? If we did that then we would get more dynamic range. We could also stop pulling back the 0.4 EV when we load the images which don’t clip. That should give us more in the bottom end, but then we have a profile of something that doesn’t exist as we can’t pull back the highlights without pulling down the shadows. Also, if we pull back 0.4 stops, the 255 (Sekonic seems to want things in 8-bit) will map to much lower than white and the profile software didn’t seem to like that. Should they be corrected in CC software?

Maybe I am approaching it the wrong way. Maybe I should try to correct each image using the exposure control in RedAlert, e.g. if the image was -2EV, bring up the exposure by +2. Noise would become an issue here so the test might be a little subjective unless the software takes into account of noise.

So it is quite hard to know what would be useful to profile.

Any thoughts?
 
Biba said:
Question :) where i can buy chart like it is in seconic test pictures ?
Thanks. I did not found it on b&H .
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I got with my meter from my supplier here in Norway, but DO get the new one with alot more patches in it and the infamous "crosses" in the corners. It is a great saving to make 3 shots pr. setting as opposed to 11 as I have to do.
And save everything out as 16 bit from RA/RC in a known colorspace, batch everything from there to AdobeRGB 8-bit in Photoshop prior to running the software. the 8 bit is not a problem in this excercise as it will keep the relative intensities correct, it will only affect the precision at the clipping point and it is sufficient in 8-bit on a meter with 1/10th stop precision.
Then when you have done this some times you get the hang of it and the bigger picture. Toss the software out the window and do it manually instead... it is easier and just as correct.
MHO.
 
I just wanted to bump this and see if anyone has come up with a profile yet.

Thanks!
 
I finally shot my tests with build 16, 3 Sekonics, a Master Prime and an Astro waveform monitor.

I have a few profiles, but I'm still not happy. I'm coming round to Robin's way of thinking actually.
 
Well, here's a profile for ISO 320 tungsten. I can see why mid grey might be better placed lower down the scale now.
 
So I have the Sekonic 758 Cine, Version 2 of the software, and the Exposure Chart II, but I'm a little baffled with how to go about profiling the camera and the meter. I've read the instructions, and watched the video- I get the concept just fine. However when I go into the software to set up the Metered Value (Step 3) I cannot select the correct shutter speed 1/48 (180 degrees.) the only options I have are 1/30 & 1/60.

how are all of you profiling the Red with the Sekonic? Are you Setting the shutter to 1/60 on the Red? (But wouldn't this create a wrong profile, as the shutter will be at 1/48 - unless you are keeping the shutter at 1/60 when shooting at 24 fps.) Are you just telling the software you shot it at 1/60 even though you shot it at 1/48? (But again wouldn't this create a wrong profile as it wasn't shot that way?)

I'm rather confused....
 
Anyone??
 
Ryan E. Walters said:
Anyone??
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Hello Ryan,

In the 758 Cine you have shutter speed that are matching cine speed and you can adjust speed up to 1 fps incremet if you want. For that you have to scroll past the regular photo speeds 1/30 1/60 ..... up to 1/8000 and then you get to the cinespeeds (you can also change mode I think). You can also adjust shutter angle if you want.

Hope that resolves your question...?

Patrick
 
Tresch said:
Hello Ryan,

In the 758 Cine you have shutter speed that are matching cine speed and you can adjust speed up to 1 fps incremet if you want. For that you have to scroll past the regular photo speeds 1/30 1/60 ..... up to 1/8000 and then you get to the cinespeeds (you can also change mode I think). You can also adjust shutter angle if you want.

Hope that resolves your question...?

Patrick
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Thanks for the reply, but that does not answer my question. My question is not how to use the meter, I've got that part figured out. Rather how are people profiling their meter to the Red using the Sekonic Software and the charts.

In the software to profile the camera you have to enter in the camera settings you shot the chart at. And under the shutter speed you only have the options of 1/30 1/60 1/120 .... there is not 1/48 (180 degrees) which is what it is for 24p.

Is everyone setting the software to 1/60 even though the actual rate is 1/48?

Doesn't that effect the results making the profile inaccurate?
 
Ryan E. Walters said:
Doesn't that effect the results making the profile inaccurate?
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I've just grabbed my meter. I only did a manual profiling, and there is no speed option.

So I could conclude that:

Changing speed should not change as much your profiling as opposite to changing ASA rating. I think if you do not do any FX work like 1/2 to 1 sec shutter aperture (if this is even possible with RED?) the response of your CMO should be close to equal. Very low shutter speed is an issue with argentic I don't know with CCD and CMOS.

Though it would be interesting to see if this is proven science...

Now color temp / post processing / post-production will certainly have much more incidence to your latitude than shutter speed.

My 2 cents.

Patrick
 
Tresch said:
I've just grabbed my meter. I only did a manual profiling, and there is no speed option.

So I could conclude that:

Changing speed should not change as much your profiling as opposite to changing ASA rating. I think if you do not do any FX work like 1/2 to 1 sec shutter aperture (if this is even possible with RED?) the response of your CMO should be close to equal. Very low shutter speed is an issue with argentic I don't know with CCD and CMOS.

Though it would be interesting to see if this is proven science...

Now color temp / post processing / post-production will certainly have much more incidence to your latitude than shutter speed.

My 2 cents.

Patrick
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Thanks. I spoke (email) with Phil Bradon of Sekonic - he is the guy in the tutorial video on how to profile the meter. And from what I understand of his email, he was saying that there will be a difference, but it will be negligible, since 1/48 and 1/60 are so close. He is trying to get them to make a cine version of the software- which would be great, but there is nothing yet.
 
I profiled manually... don't worry about that gizmo software. Just take a few exposures then go into FCP and see how far you can push the images in post to match up to the properly exposed clip.. based on that test.. input your dynamic/clip points manually in the Sekonic.
 
facetmedia said:
I profiled manually... don't worry about that gizmo software. Just take a few exposures then go into FCP and see how far you can push the images in post to match up to the properly exposed clip.. based on that test.. input your dynamic/clip points manually in the Sekonic.
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Could you publish your findings... even if they are based on your Camera/meter/post-workflow specs?

Thanks

Patrick
 
I use it in Spot mode most of the time targeting what I want to be at 18% grey. I am an old school photog and am used to that method and it also is very accurate with the unit out of the box, no new profiles, etc. Just calibrate the meter to a 18% grey card evenly lighted.

You just need to be able to visulaize what in your scene needs to be at that (18% Grey) point with your mind in B&W mode. Very easy to light a scence this way, and also can do a quick check around the set from the camera which is a much better location to see how the set looks then running from camera to lights, etc

Ron
 
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