SECOND HAND RED ONES

[Mike P.]

Good point Andy. I should clarify a little -- I was talking about the period of time between Epic-X being readily available (non-Red owners orders being fulfilled) and potentially before Epic-S is readily available. I was also going under the presumption that, as soon as EX is rolling, that readily available ESes would only be a few months away. I got the impression that the kinks of Epic-X and Scarlet-fixed have been worked out, and now it's just a matter of sourcing parts at pre-disaster prices/availability and since the Epic-S is a simpler/toned-down version of X, it wouldn't be to long before they began to roll off the line too... (at which point, it wouldn't make sense to get a R1mx for more than $10,000, as the $12000-ES gets you far more functionality... if ES actually ends up being ~$12Gs that is.)

 

[Carlos Dueñas]

What about the Red One M? You can find some in the 15K ballpark allready.

 

[Sean Finnegan]

Sell one to me for cheap!

 

[Andy White]

Good point Andy. I should clarify a little -- I was talking about the period of time between Epic-X being readily available (non-Red owners orders being fulfilled) and potentially before Epic-S is readily available. I was also going under the presumption that, as soon as EX is rolling, that readily available ESes would only be a few months away. I got the impression that the kinks of Epic-X and Scarlet-fixed have been worked out, and now it's just a matter of sourcing parts at pre-disaster prices/availability and since the Epic-S is a simpler/toned-down version of X, it wouldn't be to long before they began to roll off the line too... (at which point, it wouldn't make sense to get a R1mx for more than $10,000, as the $12000-ES gets you far more functionality... if ES actually ends up being ~$12Gs that is.)

Hi Mike P - OK see what you mean. My feeling is that Scarlet will come after Epic-X & that Epic-X itself will take a long time until it can drop into the hands of new owners (ie - non current ones).

Simply good business/economics really... Scarlet is a differing userbase & they'll sell like hotcakes... Epic-X will also sell out as quickly as they come off the production line. So, in business terms IMO, the Epic-S will be the last to roll out - even though it's essentially the same body/hardware (with less features enabled than it's X big brother) - as a vast number of users will go to Epic-X rather than wait for the Epic-S. The S will flatten the playing field - as Red will essentially be releasing an amazing camera at the $12K price point.

I just can't see Epic-S being released to market until Epic-X becomes the standard bit of camera kit. I may be wrong (that'll be nice!) but that's why I said in my earlier post that I was trying to twist my EP to go for an X - but the lack of firm timescale goes against that.

In all fairness, I'd love a sub $10K Red kit, but the higher price point on the kit will stay for a while. In a sense, if Red are following the business train of thought I'm speculating, thye're protecting not only themselves - but the host of Red-Owners out there. The old Red won't be devalued by the Epic-M - and, until the Epic-X is available in huge quantities, the older Red systems will retain value.

As I say, personally, I feel the Epic-S is the last element of the chain & the one that'll devalue it the most. Whilst it'll be a jumping into ownership position for a number of people, it will also start to impinge on the rental market (as facilities will kit out Epic-S's for less than an Epic-X standalone body) - so, it's interesting times ahead & certainly a re-evaluation of some current business models.

IMO this is why the Dragon/Monstro sensor upgrade path is only availble to Epic-M/Epic-X - it's a way of keeping the value chain & maintaining a demand for the the higher spec Epic M/X that will come from users wanting to get a long term ROI. The Epic-S won't allow the senor upgrade - but will create a mass Red Epic-S user base.

The Scarlet (fixed) is interesting... that's why I think (again - all theory here!) that this unit will be next and it'll come at the $6K price point. It'll simply become the scond camera to existing Red owners and will be the 'jumping in point' for a whole host of DSLR/Videographers as their first Red camera (and as many DoP's play camera & B/C cam). Essentially, as it's a single unit & ready to go - it'll be the one that sells (and sells) bringing Red's appeal to a mass market that isn't based around professional cinematography/production/TV etc who go for PL lenses & work with small/medium/large crews. The Scarlet has it's sites aimed on pro/semi-pro & the all important (newly created) horde of DSLR guys/gals (from photographers through to owner/operators & one man bands etc) and is the camera that (again, IMO) will put Red's name firmly in the mass market - and be the DSLR alternative (think about it in the sense of what an easy sale - selling to someone as a complete unit - all fixed & there you go - Raw & 3K etc... so what if the sensor is smaller... if the image rocks, it'll sell!).

I'd but a Scarlet now if they were available, as an iterim and useful bit of kit. Not as a replacement for an Epic or Red, but as something different. I wouldn't be think of using my Angie & Lomos on it - they're reserved for the big jobs - the Scarlet is something else... almost Red's answer to stills/ENG in the same body.

Lastly, I also think Red are gearing up for a big sale on older Red cameras - returned units etc. There'll suddenly be the ability to buy 'Battletested Reds' as kits from Red themselves and, if all my crazy theories are true, they'd want to be selling these units before any Epic-S units roll off the production line.

Damn - this was a long post... sorry, just got carried away (and used as an excuse to stop storyborading for a while) :w00t:

Anyway, half the fun is second guessing what Mr Jannard & crew are up to :coolgleamA: