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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scratch vs After Effects

Cüneyt Kaya said:
guess assimilate knows how to fight,but only time will tell who did bet on the wrong horse
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The crown jewel in the brief is Cyborg took 9 developers 5 years to bring it to market while Scratch took 1 developer 2 years. I can't believe a judge would consider that and deny Autodesk a chance to hire an independent forensic programmer to compare Cyborg's and Scratch's source code.

One thing for sure. No matter what program, you will always find similarities.
 
Cüneyt Kaya said:
well i wish assimilate all the best.
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You are not a SCRATCH user, or a customer, but you know enough of the program to give all sides of the story? That's sort of like (in the USA) FOX News claiming to be "Fair and Balanced."

You drag down the color correction features, and then when our users present several arguments of why you're mistaken, you move on to bringing up the lawsuit? No... you clearly do not wish us the best.

You say that 1/2 rez is "pretty useless in color correction." I can connect you with Steven Soderbergh... since he personally graded "Che," "The Girfriend Experience," and "The Informant" on SCRATCH? Or maybe connect you with Local Hero in LA (30+ RED features on SCRATCH,) Technicolor in Vancouver, Ghost in Copenhagen, Stareast in Seoul, Complete Post in Melbourne, Kincine in Valencia, or our other customers who have graded RED feature films on SCRATCH? Maybe they just aren't smart enough and have been fooled by us, and you can tell them all why they're wrong?

Your comments on the lawsuit are clearly designed to get a rise out of someone at ASSIMILATE and draw out a response. For a full description, read the *full* legal briefs, which we have a link to on our homepage. That includes all of the legal communication - from both Autodesk and ASSIMILATE - and draw your own conclusions from there. I obviously cannot comment on an ongoing legal case involving the company I work for.

Lucas Wilson
------------
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA
 
We just bought scratch and I really don't get all the assimilate-bashing. I have used quite a few conform and grading tools the last 10 years, both cheap and expensive but none of them has been this interactive. Now i spend my time being creative, not rendering or solving technical problems. I'm not saying it's perfect but i'd rather do colorgrading in scratch than after effects.
 
luki said:
You are not a SCRATCH user, or a customer, but you know enough of the program to give all sides of the story? That's sort of like (in the USA) FOX News claiming to be "Fair and Balanced."
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well i did hire some sessions in a scratch suite last year, i wasnt soo pleased.

luki said:
... you move on to bringing up the lawsuit? No... you clearly do not wish us the best.
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lucas, this is paranoia, sorry.

luki said:
You say that 1/2 rez is "pretty useless in color correction." I can connect you with Steven Soderbergh... since he personally graded "Che," "The Girfriend Experience," and "The Informant" on SCRATCH? Or maybe connect you with Local Hero in LA (30+ RED features on SCRATCH,) Technicolor in Vancouver, Ghost in Copenhagen, Stareast in Seoul, Complete Post in Melbourne, Kincine in Valencia, or our other customers who have graded RED feature films on SCRATCH?
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like i said, if the colorist wishes to use it, and is comfortable with its features, he should use it.

same goes the other way around, if someone doesnt like to work with scratch, you should also respect that and dont start to insult people or make sarcastic comments.

looks unproffessional to me.


luki said:
Maybe they just aren't smart enough and have been fooled by us, and you can tell them all why they're wrong?
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didnt read such a flat line for a long time.
------------------

lucas, relax man, its just an opinion on a discussion board.
 
I have many happy SCRATCH/RedBOXX users growing their business and producing top-quality results with Scratch every single day.

We've never had a Scratch system returned - or even heard a Scratch user say he/she had found a better value in any other toolset used for performing color grading, finishing/conform and data management. And that's in over 6 years of providing hardware platforms for Assimilate Scratch.

I think we can all read between the lines here and see the facts as they have been laid out. (And by facts, I don't mean slanderous "opinions".)

If you have an fact - state the fact. If you have an opinion - state your opinion. But don't try to pass it off as a fact...

And don't be hypocritical or smarmy.
 
Hey Cüneyt,

Back on topic: can you explain how exactly the color correction tools in Scratch are inferior to say Clipster (or Baselight or Lustre)?

Barend
 
Barend Onneweer said:
Hey Cüneyt,

Back on topic: can you explain how exactly the color correction tools in Scratch are inferior to say Clipster (or Baselight or Lustre)?

Barend
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more tools, keys, tracking, multiple layers, multiple RAW format support, realtime full quality (hope the rocket will change that), just to name a few.

ah and try all of the above at the same time :)





@adam
"we have happy customers" is a fantastic fact.

what was the market share overall again?
how much did it grow over the last six years?
 
Cüneyt, in your first post in this thread you said the color correction tools of Scratch "aren't so well". So I'm expecting an explanation of that statement

But instead you come with other arguments that are equally vague. More tools is not necessarily better.

It would seem that you come in here to pick fights. Quickly dropping some remarks about the quality of Scratch's color correction tools, then when asked about it you mention the lawsuit. You keep diverting and never really add substance to your case. And now you try to add Boxxtechs' market share to the table?

Really?
 
Barend Onneweer said:
Cüneyt, in your first post in this thread you said the color correction tools of Scratch "aren't so well". So I'm expecting an explanation of that statement

But instead you come with other arguments that are equally vague. More tools is not necessarily better.

It would seem that you come in here to pick fights. Quickly dropping some remarks about the quality of Scratch's color correction tools, then when asked about it you mention the lawsuit. You keep diverting and never really add substance to your case. And now you try to add Boxxtechs' market share to the table?

Really?
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can you tell me why COLOR isnt used all the time?
guess you can find some reasons.

multiply that with 10 and you know why the baselight/lustre etc. products has a much bigger market share in CC World than Scratch.

and if you dont understand now, well...who cares.

there is a client for every product out there.
 
It's too bad that you don't bring real arguments to the discussion.

But let me try to get this: basically you're saying that a product is better because it has a bigger market share?
 
wow... its incredible how this topic got out of subject because an individual doesent know how to behave in a forum, i thought this was going to be a very intresting thread but ended up beign another injustified attack to scratch.
regarding the subject the conclusion here may be if you want a CC tool get scratch over AFX (yes AFX can cc but not as good as scratch) but if you want to composite get AFX (yes you can also do some compositing on scratch, tired myself :) but its not made for that as AFX is)
ive workd with scratch as a colorist and its always been a great tool and the support from the assmilate team has always been amazing, its a tool i would defenitly recomend if its in your need.

oh and for whats worth the comparison of other cc systems with scratch just to trash it imho its just silly...
 
I'm glad guys like Alex De Vivo start threads like this, you can't buy Scratch at BEST BUY, but everyone needs to know tit for tat what is better or worse, because maybe they'll start selling scratch at BEST BUY?

So I have some questions myself.

1. After Effects versus an Orangutan
2. After Effects versus 2x Spider Monkeys with Danriff
3. After Effects on windows versus a dog sitting on a fence.
4. Assimilate Scratch with no mouse versus After Effects with 4 mice and 8 keyboards.
5. After Effects in a greyscale versus versus Assimilate Scratch with its chroma levels totally illegal.
6. 1 fully loaded scratch cine versus 8 fully loaded AE stations, also the Scratch operator is blind and all the AE operators have no thumbs.
7. 7 Tuna Sandwhiches versus 1 Cold Cut Combo.
8. David Hasselhoff versus Michael Bolton
 
Just a wild guess/stab at it...

Maybe the facilities that can afford a Baselight/Resolve/Lustre have a lot more budget than scratch houses and this allows them to hire the more talented colorists, better tools and maybe even an inhouse color expert/engineer? Those places with all the $$$ can clearly afford to do a ton of Filmout/testing and have most of all the toys/Great-minds/eyes.

I believe firmly that its the artists. But there is something to be said for having a BaseLight 8 to play with or a Luster with a full burn farm. Oh, and the NEO for the Pablo is pure lust (talk about brochure value ;-).

I would venture a guess that the math that handles the colors/data in all the apps is somewhat similar (in all these $50,000 apps), There must be other differences, but I will not even try to get into that here.

Is there really any objective way to come to a conclusion on this? At least, I don't think so.
 
Frank Cueto said:
I would venture a guess that the math that handles the colors/data in all the apps is somewhat similar (in all these $50,000 apps), There must be other differences, but I will not even try to get into that here.
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It's all about a balance of power, features, efficiency, and client expectations and resources. For the colorist, the larger systems allow you to operate at much closer to the speed of thought, with a minimum of workarounds and a minimum of steps, to achieve whatever you want. Things like direct access to secondary controls, object based tracking, real time defocus, and a combination of both film style and telecine style color controls allow an experienced colorist to deliver anything that's needed and anything that's requested, and to deliver it in multiple versions very, very quickly. The end result is that more can be done in a given amount of time, something that is expected by high end clients. There is little these systems allow you to accomplish that cannot be done by the less elaborate offerings (like Scratch, Speedgrade, or even Apple Color), but their toolsets and pure processing power allow you to be much more productive and precise given the limited number of hours that are always part of the process. All of this, of course, comes at a price, but high end work is usually done for high end clients with high end budgets. And high end expectations.
 
My little contribution to the thread..
I am one of those who do 'a bit of everything' (editing, sound editing, color, composition, fx, etc). But I like to work as Director of Photography and Colorist. I use Apple Color with a Wacom tablet, and finally have an acceptable reference monitor.

I've been twice to Scratch color grading rooms (with a colorist operating the computer), and I think it is way better than Apple Color.
But then I tried a copy at home, and I see the difference. Color is made to be used with a mouse. They even added multi touch gestures in Color 1.5 (to use with Apple notebooks). It can be used with color grading surfaces as the CP200, but it can also be used with a mouse with no problems. (I have a Wacom tablet for grading).
I tried Scratch at home, and -besides I don't know how to use it well- I found it is very different to use it without an secondary monitor, a control surface, another external scopes monitor, etc.
So... I started to learn how to use it, but I will keep using Apple Color until I really can take advantage of what Scratch or similar apps can offer (at that time, I suppose I'll be able to buy the software and hardware needed).

I just think it is important to take these things into account.
Luck,
Rodrigo
 
Well I don't have much to add except when I switch from 1/2 rez to full rez the clients all say they can't see the difference. Certainly it doesn't matter when I'm grading. Also as was mentioned this is a CPU issue with debayering that will just go away as machines get faster.

I couldn't be happier with our Scratch Finish system. I also find the support great to work with. For comparison I have a Smoke here and will never try grading on it again if I have the Scratch. I do however use it for what it's meant for, a finishing/compositor system.
 
Rodrigo Silvestri said:
My little contribution to the thread..
I am one of those who do 'a bit of everything' (editing, sound editing, color, composition, fx, etc). But I like to work as Director of Photography and Colorist. I use Apple Color with a Wacom tablet, and finally have an acceptable reference monitor.

I've been twice to Scratch color grading rooms (with a colorist operating the computer), and I think it is way better than Apple Color.
But then I tried a copy at home, and I see the difference. Color is made to be used with a mouse. They even added multi touch gestures in Color 1.5 (to use with Apple notebooks). It can be used with color grading surfaces as the CP200, but it can also be used with a mouse with no problems. (I have a Wacom tablet for grading).
I tried Scratch at home, and -besides I don't know how to use it well- I found it is very different to use it without an secondary monitor, a control surface, another external scopes monitor, etc.
So... I started to learn how to use it, but I will keep using Apple Color until I really can take advantage of what Scratch or similar apps can offer (at that time, I suppose I'll be able to buy the software and hardware needed).

I just think it is important to take these things into account.
Luck,
Rodrigo
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Your using a hacked copy off SCRATCH off the internet. That doesn't really count.
 
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