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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

SCRATCH Price

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Watch and listen what Assimilate’s Lucas Wilson said about SCRATCH price(s) at

RED ONE CAMERA Presentation, HD EXPO, Burbank, CA, 7th-8th Nov, 2007.

RED_7.jpg

Lucas Wilson.

VIDEO LINK>>>
 
Sycophant said:
With all due respect, if you thought that 4K was in the reach of your average indie, you've not really got any idea about the realities of these things. Even many studio films never see a 4K DI.
Click to expand...

gee, thanx for the "with all due respect", that 's very kind of you.

when my friend told me that I was crazy shooting 35mm because now there was a miracle camera I told him that HE was the crazy one believing in marketing.

But then, since I like to keep an open mind, I decided to investigate. Fair enough?

so? what's the verdict? is this really 4k for indie? or is my friend delusional like I thought? are we really in the mists of a revolution? is this really the holy grail? or is this just the equivalent of renting a genesis?

and yes, there IS an answer.
 
sparkhope said:
Did I hear that right? 55k and not 55 hundred...for the cube.
Click to expand...

Guys,

If you search through the threads going back a few months - I posted the same information here that I said in that video.

The Cube + a very full version of SCRATCH = 55K turnkey.

The Cube, by the way, is a very serious beast. Dual quad-core, 3G RAM, NVidia FX4600-SDI, and 4TB of RAID5 storage in a removable disk pac. It is a great system for on-set, but is also a great system for regular old 2K DPX work. We have several customers using the cube for a combination of RED and 2K DPX DI.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA
 
josh said:
gee, thanx for the "with all due respect", that 's very kind of you.
Click to expand...

I wasn't intending to be rude, but 4K is some serious image to be pushing around. It's not simple in any respect, and capturing 4K is not even close to being half the battle.

when my friend told me that I was crazy shooting 35mm because now there was a miracle camera I told him that HE was the crazy one believing in marketing.

But then, since I like to keep an open mind, I decided to investigate. Fair enough?
Click to expand...

You'd be spending a lot more to get your own film processing and colour timing equipment...

To me the expectations have always seemed a little weird in this way. If you shoot 35mm, you'd generally telecine to DV or Digi for an offline edit, and the rent time for a DI to negative cut, you'd not go out and buy a Steenbeck so you could do your own neg cut.

The same thing, in my opinion, should be applied to RED. You can do all your preliminary work in Avid or FCP for little cost on your own terms, and then go to a post house for the finishing. There's no need to own it all yourself.

so? what's the verdict? is this really 4k for indie? or is my friend delusional like I thought? are we really in the mists of a revolution? is this really the holy grail? or is this just the equivalent of renting a genesis?

and yes, there IS an answer.
Click to expand...

The answer is yes, much more so than ever. You can buy a RED camera for less than you'd have paid in rental on a Dalsa before, or even better you can rent one for a price that makes it competitive with more traditional video formats.

But to stay 4K the whole way you're going to need to do some heavy lifting at some point, and the gear for that is going to be costly, or you're going to need to rent. For most people renting makes much more sense, unless you're doing this day in day out.

There's some sort of idea that because you can buy the camera cheap that you should be able to buy everything and do it all yourself - I don't think it's quite realistic for 4K at the moment.
 
I'm just waiting for my camera to be or to get delivered.

After that is continuing a part II.

Part II means a camera system that you could afford (as a private person).

I mean a camera and best lenses.

Also the best affordable post system.

Have everything to get shot and produced under your tiny indie control.
 
josh said:
gee, thanx for the "with all due respect", that 's very kind of you.

when my friend told me that I was crazy shooting 35mm because now there was a miracle camera I told him that HE was the crazy one believing in marketing.

But then, since I like to keep an open mind, I decided to investigate. Fair enough?

so? what's the verdict? is this really 4k for indie? or is my friend delusional like I thought? are we really in the mists of a revolution? is this really the holy grail? or is this just the equivalent of renting a genesis?

and yes, there IS an answer.
Click to expand...
This is an incredibly subjective question. From what I have seen and begun testing on my own, RED delivers exceptional quality, if you know what you are doing. That means getting to know how the camera shoots. Those who master it, will go on to love this camera and use it on everything from music videos on up through feature films.

It's not just a 35mm vs RED question. In terms of overall look, that's something you can only come to the conclusion if you know what both systems are capable of. And 35mm involves various film stocks, so then you have to factor that in. So many variables.

If it were me and I was trying to decide between 35mm and RED, I'd do a side by side test using the film stock I'd want for a particular scene and then I'd run the RED right along side it. Take it through post with a grade and see what you like. If that's too expensive, which it could be, then you have to make as informed a decision as you can, which means lots of homework, lots of talking to experienced RED shooters who also shoot film, and see what makes sense for your project.

I am working with a director who has this same question. He has been committed to shooting his film on 35mm and when I discussed RED, he said he would only go that route if he could see something projected in a theatre. Fair enough. He won't make the choice blindly, based on any kind of info I would give him about RED.
 
luki said:
Guys,

If you search through the threads going back a few months - I posted the same information here that I said in that video.

The Cube + a very full version of SCRATCH = 55K turnkey.

The Cube, by the way, is a very serious beast. Dual quad-core, 3G RAM, NVidia FX4600-SDI, and 4TB of RAID5 storage in a removable disk pac. It is a great system for on-set, but is also a great system for regular old 2K DPX work. We have several customers using the cube for a combination of RED and 2K DPX DI.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA
Click to expand...
Hi Luki, I'll have TEN,.......maybe not.
Is the disk pac compatable with other systems, I've seen them used by
other grading systems, is there a standard yet?
And does the Cube come with a control interface for that turnkey.
thanks Mezmo
 
mezmo said:
Hi Luki, I'll have TEN,.......maybe not.
Is the disk pac compatable with other systems, I've seen them used by
other grading systems, is there a standard yet?
And does the Cube come with a control interface for that turnkey.
thanks Mezmo
Click to expand...

To my knowledge, the disk-pac is not compatible with anything else. There really isn't a standard for this yet. Everybody uses something slightly different.

The Cube does not come with a control interface.

Best,

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA
 
PapaBear said:
So, has anyone actually been able to get the list price for SCRATCH, fully-configured? If so, I think the number would be of great interest to this community...
Click to expand...

PB,

Its right here:

http://silverado.cc/shop/home.php?cat=8

Torrey
-----------------------------------------------
Torrey Loomis
President & CEO - Silverado Systems, Inc.
Outfitter to the World's Foremost Apple Professionals
2600 East Bidwell Street, Suite 280
Folsom, CA 95630
(916) 760-0032 . FAX (916) 404-5258
tloomis@silverado.cc
http://www.Silverado.cc

Check out our 4K Market at http://www.silverado.cc
 
If you want to actually finish your job and deliver for broadcast count 50-60K minimum.
For film, 70-80K
However it is my situation here, in some cases you can save some and in some cases you can get extra 20K, all depends if you want all bells and whistles or you are ready to compromise.

As Luki said, call him, tell him what you do for living, exactly, and he has a lot of experience in evaluating your minimum requirements. He can save you some $$.$$$ on SCRATCH.

Luki, where is our RED-SCRATCH Light-1080p:)

Andrew
 
PapaBear said:
So, has anyone actually been able to get the list price for SCRATCH, fully-configured? If so, I think the number would be of great interest to this community...
Click to expand...

This is from an Australian reseller who can't sell the system but answered my questions... Scratch starts at $20K (US) in software and builds up to $85K (US) for hardware and grading panels and video IO.

Amazingly difficult information to come by. They must be running drugs...:wacko:
Brillhart
 
David Brillhart said:
Amazingly difficult information to come by. They must be running drugs...:wacko:
Click to expand...

Not that difficult. You just have to email me. Or you could also email our Australian reseller - Future Reality.

I have given out prices to roughly 100 people from Reduser. It just takes an email. :)

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA
lucas (at) assimilateinc (dot) com
 
One more time... :)

SCRATCH is *software* only. Our partners integrate systems that work with SCRATCH. We also have hardware partners that we work with for integrated systems. But SCRATCH is *software* *only*. It is modular software. Depending on the components you add to it, it can cost anywhere from USD 5,000 to USD 65,000.

And all of you know that as far as hardware, you can put together a simple PC without high-bandwidth storage for under USD 10,000. Or you can put together a Skulltrail system tied to a large SAN for USD 200,000. Depends on the needs.

If you want specific prices, email me offlist. About 100 people from Reduser have emailed me. They have all gotten prices. I am now saving this post as a Notepad document on my desktop so I can just copy and paste the next time this comes up. :)

Cheers,

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA
lucas (at) assimilateinc (dot) com
 
Luki and Assimilate,

The price would get me back to Scratch ,

but I think the system doesn't promise any ability being THAT future proof.
I still keep thinking in about a year or two , computers will have become faster over and over again, maby nvidia or some other brand will have jumped this 4K train, but what will you guys have done in the meantime????....Having spent most of your time defending scatch because it was an unknown brand before and selling as much systems on your current price scheme???

If I were you I would beat the hell out of it and continue development on a more open way , like how this forum is being moderated, if it's moderated at all ???? Even negative interpretations on the red are still being kept.

I've been asking this question now for more then a couple times and I don't want to spent 200k before I've got some clear answer to me , so I'll be sure you won't be out of bizz by nab or ibc 2010. You may even have the funds , I think in the benefit of everyone we would love to see scratch evoluate as much as possible, but just some words on development would be nice to your future customers, why does this seems to be so difficult ????

Me myself i want to able to have a 4k upgrade with an idea what you will charge eventually for it??? That's what we're used to with known software developpers in the past.
 
luki said:
One more time... :)
...I am now saving this post as a Notepad document on my desktop so I can just copy and paste the next time this comes up. :)
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure I told you a few months ago this would be a recurring theme. You're a little slow on the uptake, but at least now you have a sticky. I'm sure you're a great salesperson 1 on 1.

Welcome to the Internet. :)
 
In all fairness no matter what peoples opinions and points of view happen to be concerning this product or the people who happen to currently represent them on these boards its good to be curtious and show respect.

I get the sence of hyena like behavior the way people are nipping and jabbing at Lukas. Make a valid point and he will answer you, he always has.

He has a job to do and is doing it to the best of his abilities and I think he has always been curtious in his replys. I wouldnt have the patience to deal with getting the same questions over and over again and still maintain some tone of friendlyness. Cut the guy some slack, he is just a guy like you and me he just happens to have the job he has. Someone has to do it. Put yourself in his position for a moment and give him a break.

Take a deep breath and formulate your point of view, but for the sake of the thread and the standard of this community and what it stands for please refrain from badgering like Vulturs.

Dog Day.
 
laguun said:
i am getting a little bit confused now - the prices we have got were extremly lower, and: it the scratch full software is 72.000 at silverado, while the cube system is 55.000 with the full software, where is the incentive to get the software only? or does the cube only have a reduced software?
Click to expand...

Laguun,

Our preference at Silverado is to sell the software bundles along with support plans built-in from Assimilate. To us, it makes sense that if you are ordering a system like this, then direct developer support is a no-brainer.

You can buy SCRATCH at a price of less than $20,000 USD, but its the additional modules and extensions that add a lot of the power and functionality.

The first bundle is the Dailies bundle consisting of components for viewing dailies on set:

http://silverado.cc/shop/product.php?productid=998&cat=120&page=1

Second bundle is the Conform bundle for working assembly:

http://silverado.cc/shop/product.php?productid=999&cat=120&page=1

Third bundle is Color Grading which enables editing plus scaffolding and color correction:

http://silverado.cc/shop/product.php?productid=1000&cat=120&page=1

Finally, there is Finishing which includes everything except S.two digital field recorder support and the kitchen sink:

http://silverado.cc/shop/product.php?productid=1001&cat=120&page=1

The MaxCube is a pretty complete system, but it does lack the Camera/Z-Space extension, so you are missing the ability to apply advanced texture mapping with camara and z-space manipulation. Also, since its truly a pre-post system, there are no scaffolds for secondary color correction or tracking within CC.

Prices posted are MSRP. Customers seriously entertaining a SCRATCH system obviously have some wiggle room with their VAR to derive more value out of their acquisition.

One of the things we offer is SCRATCH leasing--not a rental, but a lease with a $1 buyout where you keep the gear. A $140,000 SCRATCH Finishing system can be had for as low as $3300 per month, depending on credit and term chosen.

Our own personal experience for on-set RED workflow shows that a MacBook Pro with a series of RAID 1 drives and an LTO-3A tape drive is a phenomenal value:

http://silverado.cc/shop/product.php?productid=997&cat=0&page=1

This system was used recently to great success on a feature film here in Sacramento.

Torrey
-----------------------------------------------
Torrey Loomis
President & CEO - Silverado Systems, Inc.
Outfitter to the World's Foremost Apple Professionals
2600 East Bidwell Street, Suite 280
Folsom, CA 95630
(916) 760-0032 • FAX (916) 404-5258
tloomis@silverado.cc
http://www.Silverado.cc

Check out our 4K Market at http://www.silverado.cc
 
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