Scarlette arrived ??? (2) Ready for ENG !

[Hrvoje Simic]

But photojournalists are the exact market Canon tries to hit with a 5D.

I think with added video option Canon tries to hit people who want to shoot video and are not familiar enough with its shortcomings and the ones who don't care, seeing 1080p @ 35mm DOF as a priority over anything.

To have broadcastable video in the bag for those guys is a godsend.

I'd say to have any portable high quality motion imaging device is fantastic. It's just that this is not it. Too much compromises, IMO.

Will Scarlet be something that market ever considers? It's form factor is a BOX.

Which market ? Still, EFP, ENG, Cine ? You are talking about the form factor of the brain alone.

Come on, you can't even hold a RED with one hand without adding $500 in accessories. Be fair.

The whole rig on that picture costs about three times as the camera, with total price of the system being well over 2/3" Scarlet's price, closer to EX1 price, and you don't have a practical ENG camera. What you do have is smudgy wobbly 1080p and 35mm DOF with delivery codec and a lot of artifacts clearly visible at full resolution and no Panavision lens strapped on it won't change that.

The quality to price ratio of these cameras is absolutely nuts.

If we are talking about posting small web clips, I agree, but at the cost of loosing quite a few options. To be clear, no one is bashing Canon. It's great that companies like Canon and Nikon have started to offer more options, further developing imaging technology.

I don't doubt that they will also have great video solutions, but they still don't and this current situation is not helping shooters but deceiving them, at the expense of picture quality and their shooting abilities.

 

[Bryce O]

Just screened a quick 5D shoot last night in a lab. 5 seconds into it, I heard "sh!t is this a real movie?". This has never happened with Ex1 or A1 footage... Although I've had many people tell my shorts done on a EX1 and A1 look like a nice low-budget film, which is still a compliment, don't get me wrong. But it's never been like the reactions I get with 5D footage. Argue about color-space and codecs all you want, but 99% of moviegoers and general population don't give a sh*t. All they are aware of is the feeling they get from the images. 5D and 7D reproduce that big-budget feeling. Small sensor cams like the EX1, although they have great codecs, just don't do it. When it comes down to it, yea, the EX1 is probably better for broadcast. But if you're shooting a filmic/cinematic project, you'd have to be crazy to not shoot a 5D or 7D... or RED if you have the cash.

 

[Joel Kaye]

I think with added video option Canon tries to hit people who want to shoot video and are not familiar enough with its shortcomings

Here's the deal. Saturday Night Live has already shot 7D footage for their opening title sequence. And that camera isn't even on the market yet. VH1 has a promo shot on the 5D. I'm sure if I dug around for 1/2 hour I'd find all kinds of stuff has been broadcast.

If you want to call NBC and VH1 a bunch of amateur losers that don't know what they are doing that's fine with me.
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/clips/bladdivan/1161213/
Check out the Bladdivan spot. Somehow I think if that was shot on RED you'd be saying it looked great. And did you hear the crowd dissing the cmos skew?

More info for inquiring minds.
http://philipbloom.co.uk/2009/09/29/saturday-night-live-use-canon-7d-and-5d/#more-5361

You think Scarlet comes with a handgrip and rail system for $3500? If it does maybe you've got a good point there. I've sure never seen anything anywhere that confirms that. Could point me to that info? I'm sorta guessing RED's entry level offerings may be changing as we type. They do have the ability to put together a very attractive bundle that includes accessories. Might sway a lot of buyers at this tender moment in time.

My RED is #141. What's yours and why is this so religious for you? If you're not worried some 7D guy is going to steal your paycheck why get all worked up? Me thinks ye doth protest too much.

Bryce O is right. Regular people get feelings from images and they aren't pixel and codec peepers.

Continue whistling in the dark.

 

[Pierre Gresil]

I introduce this thread like a joke not like a "true truth"...

But it's an interesting "Meccano" camcorder for brain storming...

Here a lightest gear for ENG in Hot situations...

Remember, the first Canon Hi-8 camcorder (EX1)was design like a SLR...

So the next big jump for them is to launch a true pro camcorder with full frame or APS-C sensor, RAW, XLR and so on... That's for 2010, for sure !

So the real challenge for RED is to acheive Scarlet in a short delay to be first on the podium... The evolutive concept is a strong muscle to convince. :Angel_anim::Angel_anim::Angel_anim:

But the prosumer / pro video market is'nt so wide....

We hope some teasing from RED around Scarlet in a few time...

 

[Emiliano Ranzani]

What is "good enough for broadcast" is very relative. Content is king and even 3gp can be shown in news if there is a proper reason for it. That doesn't mean mobile phones are "good enough for broadcast". What you can shoot playing with the camera on your own and what you need to shoot can be, and most often are, two different things.

True.
Just think of all the footage from 9\11 that was captured with consumer cameras and cell phones. Even though that stuff was broadcasted, it doesn't mean now the daily news can be done with 300 $ 1\6-of-an-inch monosensored cameras.
On the other end, the notion of broadcast quality has changed, along with the quality of the equipment: once, no-one would've used a camera as small as a PD170.

Producers in particular are getting excited about the filmic possibilities for very little outlay.

Producers are always trying to spend less and are ready to validate anything, despite the fact that their job has very little to do with technical issues, the minute they think "looks good to me".
While I know there are some very knowledgeable producers out there, so far I've only met with pretty ignorant ones (technology wise): my favourites are those, rare, humble ones who say "I am no cameraman, but I know quality costs, so let's go for what is considered cutting-edge now". Pretty blind, but at least they know what they want. Unfortunately, I've only met them informally...

 

[M.Paul El-Darwish]

Humn. Form factor wise, I've always preferred my boxy Hassy bodies to my Nikon bodies.
I want whatever future hybrid camera comes out that has a small boxy body. In fact, a Digital Hassy that shoots video is really what should be happening, not a DSL shape on steroids.
I pray that Scarlet does NOT end up looking a like a DSLR on sterioids.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

You seem to have missed the other part of my quote which clearly said "and the ones who don't care, seeing 1080p and 35 mm DOF as a priority over anything".

This thread is about ENG. You are attempting to pull me into "DSLR's general video section" sub thread, where I'm not interested in going.

I'm not planning on explaining the difference between SNL shoot and ENG. If you don't understand what I'm talking about, please don't put words in my mouth, especially insults. I don't see what my RED has to do with this. I'm not using it for run & gun TV work as it is also not optimized for that. What you are implying about my posts is ridiculous, not to mention insulting, but if that makes you feel better, no problem. ;-)

Here's the deal. Saturday Night Live has already shot 7D footage for their opening title sequence. And that camera isn't even on the market yet. VH1 has a promo shot on the 5D. I'm sure if I dug around for 1/2 hour I'd find all kinds of stuff has been broadcast.

If you want to call NBC and VH1 a bunch of amateur losers that don't know what they are doing that's fine with me.
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/clips/bladdivan/1161213/
Check out the Bladdivan spot. Somehow I think if that was shot on RED you'd be saying it looked great. And did you hear the crowd dissing the cmos skew?

More info for inquiring minds.
http://philipbloom.co.uk/2009/09/29/saturday-night-live-use-canon-7d-and-5d/#more-5361

You think Scarlet comes with a handgrip and rail system for $3500? If it does maybe you've got a good point there. I've sure never seen anything anywhere that confirms that. Could point me to that info? I'm sorta guessing RED's entry level offerings may be changing as we type. They do have the ability to put together a very attractive bundle that includes accessories. Might sway a lot of buyers at this tender moment in time.

My RED is #141. What's yours and why is this so religious for you? If you're not worried some 7D guy is going to steal your paycheck why get all worked up? Me thinks ye doth protest too much.

Bryce O is right. Regular people get feelings from images and they aren't pixel and codec peepers.

Continue whistling in the dark.

 

[David Rasberry]

Anyone remember hauling around a high-band U-Matic with a thick umbilical and a stroppy sound guy? Registering those RGB tubes, burn out when you pointed at the sun. Those were the days.

U-matic, the format that wouldn't die. At least until DV came along. Shot a lot of U-matic, fortunately not ENG. Betacams for that.

 

[Joel Kaye]

You seem to have missed the other part of my quote which clearly said "and the ones who don't care, seeing 1080p and 35 mm DOF as a priority over anything".

You seem to have missed my quote where I said "OK, let's concede the 7D isn't a very usable ENG cam that NBC is going to start using for breaking news out of the satellite truck."

Ok? So we essentially agree?

 

[David Rasberry]

The one piece self contained over the shoulder ENG cameras from Sony and Panasonic are the end product of some 20 years of evolution. All essential controls are on hard switches right at hand, no digging thru menus. There is an ear speaker in the side of the body so no headphones are needed for audio monitoring. Both hands are on the lens when shooting, one for focus, one for zoom and record start/stop. A properly balanced rig will rest on the shoulder hands free with perfect stability. They are comfortable to hold and shoot with like that for hours if need be despite significant weight. The viewfinder is orientable and one can use the eyepiece or flip it up and us it like an LCD. They can take surprising amounts of abuse and still work perfectly. It is a demanding standard for any wannabe cams to match.

 

[Stuart English]

ENG

ENG

You got it David.... and THAT's the issue / the issues that that proposed Canon 7D rig does not address.

It has almost NOTHING to do with image quality, and everything to do with usability in the ENG application.

Here's the deal. Saturday Night Live has already shot 7D footage for their opening title sequence. And that camera isn't even on the market yet. VH1 has a promo shot on the 5D. I'm sure if I dug around for 1/2 hour I'd find all kinds of stuff has been broadcast.

With respect that's not the issue, i.e what is broadcast - lots of stuff gets broadcast, from cell phones to 35mm.

This thread started as a comparison of a Canon 7D v's an existing ENG camera body, that's the only relevant issue here.

 

[Tom Lowe]

One area where these DSLRs do shine is in low-light capability, obviously. This is something that I hope Red is taking very, very seriously.

 

[Stuart English]

ENG

ENG

One area where these DSLRs do shine is in low-light capability ... something that I hope Red is taking very, very seriously.

For sure, we can already see that with the Mysterium-X based RED-ONE test cameras.

 

[Pierre Gresil]

ENG... Creative use..Amateur... Indie cinema....


Everyone can choose like "Bob with Betacam and now with 5DmkII/Right Photo by KK Hui"

http://www.dslrnewsshooter.com/2009...-life-with-a-5dmkii-beats-carrying-a-betacam/


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