Scarlette arrived ??? (2) Ready for ENG !

[Pierre Gresil]

How to play fine with H.264 and a Quadcore cheap PC...


I convert quickly rushes H.264 in a stronger codec for Editing - The awesome and excellent Canopus HQ ! - and i edit with ease and pleasure with one of the fastest editor : Edius 5... And so, I can play with multiple layers with 2D, 3D effects and color correction in real time in 1080p....


A breeze...:emote_happyhappy:

Astounding, isn't it ?

 

[Stuart English]

ENG

ENG

Yes, that may all be true, but that is not a typical ENG workflow is it?

Time is time in ENG.

 

[Pierre Gresil]

Maybe "Time is time" but for video conversion or final rendering, Edius is X30 faster than a Premiere Pro CS4* (for sure compatible RED files) and without Cuda steroïds through a very expensive video card.... The video converter software is Canopus powered too. Just the time to take a coffee, while smoking a cigarette, and files are ready for editing. ENG = some minutes of rushes with a true cameraman.

* I have the two softwares on my Quad....

What else about time ?

 

[Mark Nicholson]

The workflow is great and it's so simple to edit 7D footage. Shoot 23.97, import into Avid from a CF card and transcode to DNxHD.

 

[Chip G]

This is seriously stupid. Are you going to watch some of the stuff shot by Phil bloom and that carnival short and tell me that it's not good enough for broadcast? Come on, seriously. DOF argument is dumb, because you can't even get shallow dof during the day without ND filters. H.264 holds up fine (especially at 45mbps), RAW is not worth $15000... Unless a studio is backing you.

Phillip Bloom just made a post on his blog about Saturday Night Live using the 7D & 5D for a skit on SNL. He has a link to view it, I think they shot it the other night.

 

[Jason Ramsey]

phil bloom ain't exactly just any old joe with a camera... he's made a lot of cameras and a lot of adapters look very good.

 

[Chip G]

Ohh sorry, I didn't mean Phillip shot the SNL video, the DP for SNL emailed him to tell him after seeing his Dublin video they decided to use the 7D for an SNL shoot.

 

[Jason Ramsey]

I know.

 

[Emiliano Ranzani]

Very true as digital broadcast should be open to color grading and h264 will fall short of giving a talented colourist what he needs to truly shine... Raw however .. now thats another story - long live the Red Raw Revolution (mmmm sounds a bit sore

Well, color grading is performed by National Geographic and History Channel for many of their programmes, as they have enough time to come up with the quality they need (yeah, I am a big fan of those guys).

But if you refer to ENG (especially the daily news), the delivery schedules are too short to do proper grading. Most of the time, they are supposed to edit the piece in four hours and it will take at least another four to do a nice grade with primary and secondary cc.

 

[Liam Hall]

There is no need for that battery at the back.

Counter balance.

Got to say, as much as I hate H264 and these hybrid DSLRs, I'm considering it for a shoot in Vietnam next month. Since I'll be directing/shooting and carrying all the gear it comes down to a choice of having a small camera and a couple of lights or a broadcast spec camera and no lights. Not a great choice...

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Properly exposed and colour balanced H264 is certainly good enough for ENG. And there's no reason why the 7D and nice glass could not make better pictures than an EX3 with the stock lens - depends on the shooter and the application. You see shocking shaky, over exposed so called 'broadcast quality' footage all the time shot with EX1/3s by production assistants etc.

How good the pictures look is just one part of the ENG workflow factors, with efficiency, practicality and compatibility being some of the other ones.
D7 footage quality (not prettiness of imagery or shooters creativity) compared to EX series footage - to me is a joke.

And you've shot these cameras side by side so you have an informed opinion?

He doesn't have to. Proper experience in post and broadcast with seen footage is enough.

Here's a quote from a guy who has:
"If the only difference between the 5d's implementation of the codec and the 7d's is the bitrate (higher on the 7d) then you can fully expect the 7d to have "less compression" than the Ex-1/3. You have to remember that xdcam is based on mpeg2 and H.264 is mpeg4.

Mpeg4 is much more efficient than Mpeg2. Meaning, mpeg4 is less visual compression even at the same data rate as mpeg 2.

I have worked with both the 5d and Ex1/3 and can tell you without a doubt that Canon's H.264 codec holds up better than Xdcam, especially with heavy motion.

In all honesty I would rather own a 7d with a Zoom H4N than an Ex-3 (barring the discovery of major problems that aren't in the 7d specs).

My 5d is working a lot more than every Ex1/3 that I know. "

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=181983

With all due respect, this quote doesn't mean anything. It is a guy's opinion and preferences combined with overgeneralized perception of compression.

This is seriously stupid. Are you going to watch some of the stuff shot by Phil bloom and that carnival short and tell me that it's not good enough for broadcast? Come on, seriously. DOF argument is dumb, because you can't even get shallow dof during the day without ND filters. H.264 holds up fine (especially at 45mbps), RAW is not worth $15000... Unless a studio is backing you.

What is "good enough for broadcast" is very relative. Content is king and even 3gp can be shown in news if there is a proper reason for it. That doesn't mean mobile phones are "good enough for broadcast". What you can shoot playing with the camera on your own and what you need to shoot can be, and most often are, two different things.

DOF argument is not stupid. Not all shots are bright enough for stepping down enough.
You don't need RAW, efficient RGB compression is just fine.

 

[Andy Taplin]

D7 footage quality (not prettiness of imagery or shooters creativity) compared to EX series footage - to me is a joke.

Wel if you find it funny I guess you'll be doing a lot of laughing as these cameras are not going away ;-)

Producers in particular are getting excited about the filmic possibilities for very little outlay. Anyway, I reckon these DSLRs will be shooting some kind of RAW format within a year.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

1. This is a customized Cine setup. While the actual camera is very small, the system is longer than the broadcast camera compared. Also, center of gravity is higher.


2. The way the shooter is holding the rig is perfectly fine if you are shooting a tree for a few minutes.
If you have to focus with FF, camera will rock to the sides. If you have multiple shoots in one day and a lot of handheld, wrist, forearm muscles and biceps will have a mutiny and rock the ship.
If multiplied with days and months, it would be wise to bring those handles when visiting neurologist's and orthopedics' offices. Notice the angle of the shooter's wrist in both shots.


3. Zoom and iris control = don't think so.


4. Audio connectors, control and monitoring = don't think so.


5. Switching ND's in a matte-box in these types of shoots is comparable to having a washing machine tied to you on a string while sprinting.


6. Momentum of that rig will be different than momentum of the camera pictured on the right, which has it's weight concentrated at the center.
It will behave funnier and won't sit on the shoulder as the right one. It will also do a poorer job in decreasing body vibration.


7. Right picture - pull out the cam/shoot/put away the cam

> Left picture - pull out the cam/play Lego/shoot/play Lego/put away the cam - while guy in the right picture is drinking tea.


8. Right picture - trips/falls/has scratches

> Left picture - trips/falls/visits reconstructive surgeon


9. If both guys were sent to quickly shoot the same piece, guy on the left with the amount of useful footage would get fired.


10. That site looks like Canon's propaganda site.


Btw, REC button ?


I won't comment this.

http://www.dslrnewsshooter.com/2009...video-lots-of-rolling-shutter-does-it-matter/

So my question is this, for news shooting does the audience really care that there is a bit of rolling shutter? this is not a feature film or a drama and so the audience expectation of quality is lower, they are used to seeing camera phone footage and bad DV on the news these days anyway.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Wel if you find it funny I guess you'll be doing a lot of laughing as these cameras are not going away ;-)

Of course they aren't. This is just a start. I'm just saying that it all needs much more optimization, and simply adding video recording in SLR and slapping peripherals on it is not enough for normal work.

 

[Andy Taplin]

If I made my living shooting news (which thankfully I don't!) I'd get a DSLR as well and use it when the situation called for it. You could use the 7D 'naked' and have it with you always.

I do think that Zacuto set up is ergonomically 'challenging'. But the great thing is we have so many options now at an affordable price point for owner operators.

A cameraman friend of mine has been working with the 5D a lot recently (not his choice) and he swears it handles contrast better than an EX. In a sit down interview in a crappy, small room you'll get a nicer looking shot with that big sensor.

 

[Kevin Wild]

You guys are funny. The same complaints about this 7D setup are the same complaints that RED had when it first came out which you guys defended...

-Long transcode times for the files. Umm...are you kidding? Before RED Rocket and for those of you who don't own a Rocket and don't work with proxies, RED wins the transcode contest easily.

-Bad handheld ergonomics. Umm...really? Wasn't this the huge complaint of RED also? Until the Mantis came out, it was a pretty bad handheld solution itself.

-Time to put together (like legos)? Wow, I LOVE our RED, but it still takes some putting together before you're truly ready to shoot. It would take no longer to get the pictured 7D together than to get a fully rigged RED ready with mattebox, ND filters, LCD, EVF, audio, etc.

I think everyone should chill on bashing these cameras. They are pushing the envelope of what can be done at very high quality with very low cost. They're practically taking a page out of the RED playbook, so this is exactly what I wanted: RED has pushed the competition to do things at radical price points.

Yes, it's painful for us who spent $75,000 on a RED to see the quality on these things. But there are obviously huge differences in the setups and be confident these may compete with RED for certain uses, they are still not close to what you can do with the RED setup.

I have a 7D on order. Can't wait to get it and see it myself. My RED will stay ready for pro shoots.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Red was compared to cinema cameras. This thread and that site are trying to compare D7 to ENG cameras.

 

[Stuart English]

ENG

ENG

You guys are funny. The same complaints about this 7D setup are the same complaints that RED had when it first came out which you guys defended...

-Long transcode times for the files. .

-Bad handheld ergonomics.

-Time to put together (like legos)?

I think everyone should chill on bashing these cameras.

With respect, I think that is not the issue, the original posting suggested that the Canon 7D is ready for ENG.

RED has never said RED-ONE is ready for use in ENG applications for similar reasons. Now for EFP, yes.


There are specific requirements for ENG and that's why cameras from S and P dominate that application space.

 

[Andy Taplin]

Anyone remember hauling around a high-band U-Matic with a thick umbilical and a stroppy sound guy? Registering those RGB tubes, burn out when you pointed at the sun. Those were the days.

 

[Joel Kaye]

You guys are funny. The same complaints about this 7D setup are the same complaints that RED had when it first came out which you guys defended...I have a 7D on order. Can't wait to get it and see it myself. My RED will stay ready for pro shoots.

Me too, I was starting to think I was the only one with that memory.

OK, let's concede the 7D isn't a very usable ENG cam that NBC is going to start using for breaking news out of the satellite truck.

But photojournalists are the exact market Canon tries to hit with a 5D. To have broadcastable video in the bag for those guys is a godsend.

Will Scarlet be something that market ever considers? It's form factor is a BOX.

Come on, you can't even hold a RED with one hand without adding $500 in accessories. Be fair.

The quality to price ratio of these cameras is absolutely nuts. And it's just going to get crazier. Artists love it and technicians who make their living renting spendy gear hate it.