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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlets flood the market?

Dont think its an ozzie issue. Im sure there will be a huge amount of scarlets all over the world. The scarlet will in theory take the place of the EX3s and HVX200s of today. (which as it stands is a very different market to the R1)
 
Andrew clemson said:
which as it stands is a very different market to the R1
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That is something that ive been wondering about. As has been said over and over again, The red one isnt a camera (with accessories) that is affordable for the majority, and whilst the scarlet is certainly more affordable, will it still be like, i think there is a scarlet or 2 in that town, or do people think we will we see a lot more people eating tinned spaghetti to get one.
 
Andrew clemson said:
The scarlet will in theory take the place of the EX3s and HVX200s of today. (which as it stands is a very different market to the R1)
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That's correct but Scarlet hits an even wider market than that. Scarlet's specs and the sensitivity of the sensor are unmatched by ANY 2/3" camera on the market today. There are MANY people shooting with the RED ONE that would PREFER to shoot with a Scarlet, primarily for the speed and versatility the form factor offer.

I suspect FLOOD is an understatement.
 
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They are saying Epic/Scarlet will look as good at ISO 800 as the R1 looks at ISO 320.

That's major.

And yes, I think the market will be saturated with Scarlets and it will be a game changer.

Not enough to say it will attack the EX-3/HVX market, I think it will affect EVERY market.

When every indi knows 8 people who own Scarlets and 2 with Epics, I think the rental market is going to be zero.
 
I think there will be a rental market for scarlets just like you can actually rent a HF11 (canon) if you want to or an HVX100.

I think the RED One rental market will be zero after Epic and Scarlet arrive which is why I think RED is pushing "stage two" to encourage people to keep their RED Ones otherwise I think most people would trade it in for epic vs. just take the discount.

I think the Epic rental market will be much like the RED One market is today, there are things to make it more and less, so I think it will be about the same.

The things I cannot wrap my head around still is how close in functionality the Scarlet S35 and the Epic S35 are and yet how vastly different the price is. Unless I'm misreading the specs. Seems like the Scarlet S35 is almost stealing the epic market.
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
That's correct but Scarlet hits an even wider market than that. Scarlet's specs and the sensitivity of the sensor are unmatched by ANY 2/3" camera on the market today. There are MANY people shooting with the RED ONE that would PREFER to shoot with a Scarlet, primarily for the speed and versatility the form factor offer.

I suspect FLOOD is an understatement.
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Hey Mark, what is the sensitivity of Scarlet's sensor?

All we have is:

Epic S35 is supposed to look as good / better at ISO 800 as RED ONE at ISO 320.

Scarlet 2/3 has somewhere around 6x less sensor area (~55 sq mm ?) than Epic S35 (~350 sq mm ?).

So the sensor is 2.5x "better" but 6x smaller?

I'd expect the overall 1080p result to be noisier than RED ONE 4K footage downsampled. Not as bad as RED ONE in 2K mode. But still, the RED ONE was pretty noisy to begin with (unless you do heavy NR in post, which is kinda needed to make it an even playing field with other cameras which do it at time of shooting).

For reference, Sony EX-1 1/2" would be THREE 25 sq mm (or 28 sq mm, depending on who you ask) chips. So total sensor area would be a bit larger than Scarlet.

Anyone want to correct me on this? I very much hope to be proved wrong.


Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
Hey Bruce, which 2/3" sensor camera on the market today do you think has the highest sensitivity?
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If what you're really asking is which has the best dynamic range, I would nominate the ones in the Sony F23. If you're limiting this to solely Bayer pattern single chip cameras, you don't have much to choose from because essentially all 2/3" based professional cameras I can think of are 3 chip designs.

I know I'm not Bruce - at least I don't think I am - but I figured I'd give you an opinion anyway.
 
M Most said:
If what you're really asking is which has the best dynamic range, I would nominate the ones in the Sony F23. If you're limiting this to solely Bayer pattern single chip cameras, you don't have much to choose from because essentially all 2/3" based professional cameras I can think of are 3 chip designs.

I know I'm not Bruce - at least I don't think I am - but I figured I'd give you an opinion anyway.
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You know I love your opinions, Mike.

Let me re-phrase my question:

What 2/3" based professional camera on the market today, 3-chip OR bayer, UNDER $150,000 MSPR - has the best dynamic range?
 
M Most said:
I know I'm not Bruce - at least I don't think I am - but I figured I'd give you an opinion anyway.
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Mike, you can pretend to be me anytime ;) Can I pretend to be you? Please? And if I do, do I get discounted rates for online sessions?

Yeah, F23 would be my answer for highest DR 2/3" sensor.

IMHO, F23 had higher DR than RED at 4K downsampled in Claudio Miranda's side-by-side tests. It would have walked all over RED at 2K. I could imagine a Mysterium-X S35 sensor would be a serious challenge to the F23 for DR (especially if you use good noise reduction on the Mysterium-X footage). A little 2/3" piece of one would have a lot more trouble.

For single 2/3" sensor cameras... I can only think of Silicon Imaging and Ikonoskop?

I'm still interested in how Scarlet 2/3" will compare to an EX1 DR-wise - since you can buy a used EX1 from B&H for $5000 right now. I know it's not 2/3"... but again if you count total sensor surface area, EX1 is higher. Scarlet has a lot of things in its favor (framerate for one thing!) of course.

Anyway, look forward to seeing what happens at NAB! Or sooner (we can hope).

Mark L. Pederson said:
Let me re-phrase my question:

What 2/3" based professional camera on the market today, 3-chip OR bayer, UNDER $150,000 MSPR - has the best dynamic range?
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F900R - $80,000? HPX3000 - $48,000?

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Bruce Allen said:
Mike, you can pretend to be me anytime ;) Can I pretend to be you? Please?
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Sure. Although for the life of me I can't imagine why you would want to....

F900R - $80,000? HPX3000 - $48,000?
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I absolutely agree on the HPX3000 (and its sister design, the Varicam 3700). This was shown to be the case in the ASC/PGA test as well, particularly on the "bare light bulb" shot specifically designed to showcase that particular metric. I had temporarily spaced on the SI, which is, of course, a 2/3" Bayer chip design, with very good dynamic range, although not really equal to that of the F23 or the HPX3000.

Mike Most
"Postworld" Blog @ http://mikemost.com
 
jimhare said:
T
When every indi knows 8 people who own Scarlets and 2 with Epics, I think the rental market is going to be zero.
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There will always be clients who are not interested in owner-operators or renting from individuals. They want to rent from a company with support and service. But yeah, every taxi driver in NYC will have a Scarlet. It's gonna change things in a major way.
 
Its a given that the scarlet hits a much wider market than that of the prosumer handhelds out at the moment.

However, being able to get a scarlet for the same, if not less than a camera like the EX3, and still be 100% more future proofed than you would have been with the Sony will more than likely lean (researched) decision making in a RED heavy direction.

Its going to make it more important than ever to be skilled at what you do and create interesting content rather than just having all the flashy toys.

Ive decided to suddenly become enormously talented in the next few months to help with this.
 
Mark Allen said:
The things I cannot wrap my head around still is how close in functionality the Scarlet S35 and the Epic S35 are and yet how vastly different the price is. Unless I'm misreading the specs. Seems like the Scarlet S35 is almost stealing the epic market.
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This is what I'm curios about. And from memory, the specs seem very close. Epic x though will be here sooner. Curios to see where the extra 20k is going.
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
But yeah, every taxi driver in NYC will have a Scarlet. It's gonna change things in a major way.
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Even with the equipment, it will still be difficult to raise the money to pay everyone to pull off the scripts we have. And i see lots of daddy's money films suddenly swamping the video store.

Doc.
 
Bayden Docking said:
Even with the equipment, it will still be difficult to raise the money to pay everyone to pull off the scripts we have. And i see lots of daddy's money films suddenly swamping the video store.

Doc.
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Is "Daddys Money" some sort of popular Aussie "O.C" type series?
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
You know I love your opinions, Mike.

Let me re-phrase my question:

What 2/3" based professional camera on the market today, 3-chip OR bayer, UNDER $150,000 MSPR - has the best dynamic range?
Click to expand...

A used Viper... its better than anything... especially if you upgrade the firmware to the latest...

I thing a bit better than 3700 with disabled the DRS... it can easily get 10 stops of very high quality DR about 2 -3 stops better than F23... with beautiful motion blur due to mechanical shutter and a Cinemascope mode that makes it unsurpassed for digital film work... with a 27Mpixls sensor block has the sharpest image in 1080 league...

I hope Monstro chip will reach the Viper in DR some day...

And you can find one for 20K$ if you are lucky... if they are still available for sale...
 
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