Scarlet-X RAW REDCODE vs CANON RAW codec (Finally)

[Franck De Togni]

It seems like Canon finally decided to go Raw for their upcoming video file formats...

http://www.eoshd.com/content/6976/canon-developing-4k-raw-video-format

It seems like it's gonna be a big improvement for hdslr shooters !

... It seems like they're four years too late... :001_tt2:

Many thaks to you Jim, and everybody at Red's, for being visonnaries and making the future of other companies be red's past. (sort of) :laugh:

With so many years of advance, how could Red be teased by concurrents? :ciappa:

Yeah baby ! Yeah !

 

[Erik Franzén]

Ehm, that link only says they filed a patent. Nothing big, companies do it all the time for technologies they think might have some use to them -- sooner or later -- and doesn't really say much anything about if they are developing it in their current product lines.

RAW is no doubt going forward in a major way!

 

[Franck De Togni]

I know it's just about patent... but that mean they consider it for potential use. It's not that it's "big", it's just about being wrong or too late ! :001_smile:

 

[Bruce Allen]

Did anyone actually read the patent?

Actually: it's for something that nobody does yet.

OK - we have HDR in RED where we vary the shutter speed from frame to frame.

This is like HDR but for motion: variable resolution and frame rates!

Imagine that you could shoot 240fps on RED at 1K... except
1. every 5th frame is at full-resolution 5K
2. the intermediate frames use binning or line/pixel skipping instead of a crop, so that the frame is the same as the 5K one (just with artifacts)

Now, imagine you have software that can Twixtor the 5K frames... using the motion vectors from the 240fps 1K frames as a guide (if there's smooth motion)... or blending a little of the 1K frames in if there is a lot of change in motion.

Or you could just discard the 1K frames and use the normal 48fps stream.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Jon Carr]

Good, if Canon comes out with 4K cameras then 4K moves more forward towards the standard. The more camera companies realize that 4K is the future makes it happen.

 

[Mike P.]

The 50mbit/422 codec used in the C300 was implemented in the XF series two-three months from when the codec was announced. Not sure when/if they patented it (would they even be allowed since it's mpeg2 based?), but it'd be nice if we saw some RAWness in a couple of months from them...

... Unfortunately, objectivity, there's no way they'd launch a RAW video capable camera so close the launch of the C300... that'd be insta-obsolete. For that same reason, my expectations for the next Full-Frame camera (whether 5Dmk3 or the announced CinemaEOS DSLR in the works) are somewhat low. It won't outperform the C300 as that's their newly launched flagship. All I'm saying is, this probably will get implemented at the same time RED start rocking 8k.

 

[Harrison Diamond]

One thing that will be interesting whenever this does hit...if it does...will be how ISO is handled. ISO is metadata for us in Red but Canon and others typically rely on analog gain to the sensor to adjust sensitivity. The differences could be significant in terms of how much can really be saved.

 

[Mike P.]

One thing that will be interesting whenever this does hit...if it does...will be how ISO is handled. ISO is metadata for us in Red but Canon and others typically rely on analog gain to the sensor to adjust sensitivity. The differences could be significant in terms of how much can really be saved.

I'd imagine it'd be handled in the exact same way it's handled on their stills (.CR2s), which if memory serves me correctly, is adjustable in post in the same way r3ds are... (edit: admittedly, I'm going off the "4k" and "RAW" buzzwords, as I haven't read the entire patent.)

 

[Jaakko Rinne]

I'd imagine it'd be handled in the exact same way it's handled on their stills (.CR2s), which if memory serves me correctly, is adjustable in post in the same way r3ds are... (edit: admittedly, I'm going off the "4k" and "RAW" buzzwords, as I haven't read the entire patent.)

In DSLR RAW stills ISO is baked in.

 

[Harrison Diamond]

I'd imagine it'd be handled in the exact same way it's handled on their stills (.CR2s), which if memory serves me correctly, is adjustable in post in the same way r3ds are... (edit: admittedly, I'm going off the "4k" and "RAW" buzzwords, as I haven't read the entire patent.)

But it isn't adjustable. You can change exposure to a certain extent, but it's got gain baked in at that point.

 

[Les Dittert]

Red is baking in as well. It's not like they have a floating point codec. Red quantizes at maybe 12 bits. When you tell RCX to change ISO, it is just multiplying numbers by something to get brighter.
No magic there, nothing to see here, move along .....

 

[Mike P.]

In DSLR RAW stills ISO is baked in.

Bung! So my memory doesn't serve me then...

As Les says above, it'd be interesting to see if the added bits makes up the difference of "baked-in" ISO (canon's still are 14bit, right? Or am I wrong here too?)