Scarlet-X is the perfect camera for me but why I'm not rushing into buying one.

[Melvin Feliciano]

Hi everyone, I think the winner of the November 3rd announcements was RED. The Scarlet-X sounds like a great camera and a smart way to get into the Digital Cinema world for many of us. But I'm going to hold my purchase until I hear about it's reliability. The following are some of the comments that make me be a little cautious.

This is what Philip Bloom said on his blog about his Epic:

"Nothing wrong with being cautious. I bought a 58k camera (Epic) and two out of two gigs it failed on me. So sorry being cautious. Better than tell everyone to go and buy an untested camera."

By untested camera he meant the Canon C300 and the Scarlet-X.

When asked to elaborate on how the Epic failed on him, he answered:

"Check out my strongman post and check out Danny Lacey’s Host blog about our hell we had!"

"The Scarlet does look great but I have to tell people about the pitfalls! People don’t realise the work that is needed in post and the expensive accessories which are essential. Caution is way better than blind fan boy love."

"I just want to make people aware there are pitfalls! Be worse for me to be a fanboy and say sod the C300 and buy a Scarlet. It’s untested and I have not shot with it! I am honest and I am balanced."

And the last one is from a FAQ posted by Jarred Land

How can you offer Scarlet-X at this price when EPIC is so much more?
Data rates and processing power. ASICs that weren't fast enough for EPIC… just became a gold mine for Scarlet. This, and board component reduction, allows us to lower the data rate throughput and significantly reduce our costs over volume.

I hope this doesn't mean lower quality control on the Scarlets.

So, congratulations to all of you who already ordered this brand new camera. I'm looking forward to hearing from you on your experiences with both Epics and Scarlets. Hoping to join the RED owners club in the not so distant future.

 

[Kyle Gentz]

Red Armor

 

[Melvin Feliciano]

Red Armor

Yes, I bought Apple Care too.

But when you have a paid job the best insurance is a backup camera. That's what Philip Bloom did, he finished the shoot on his 5D mark II.

 

[Scott Crawley]

And the last one is from a FAQ posted by Jarred Land

How can you offer Scarlet-X at this price when EPIC is so much more?
Data rates and processing power. ASICs that weren't fast enough for EPIC… just became a gold mine for Scarlet. This, and board component reduction, allows us to lower the data rate throughput and significantly reduce our costs over volume.

I hope this doesn't mean lower quality control on the Scarlets.

Cautious is good, but if you think Jarred's quote means they are using sub-par parts or seconds to build the Scarlet, then you simply don't understand how microprocessors are made and sorted.

Red produces professional cinema tools. Scarlet will undoubtedly be subjected to QC procedures just as demanding as Epic.

 

[Graeme Hay]

I have worked with microanalysts on testing microchips and there failure rate and I'm a bit worried when I hear things like second grade or using sensors that didnt pass Epic QC without more details or footage, etc.

I'm sure it's a great camera but Melvin is right to be a bit hesitant before dolling out close to $20k in camera and accessories; waiting past Dec31 will cost extra but if they start shipping Nov 17 we should see a lot of test videos before then.

 

[Scott Crawley]

I could be wrong but I think the issue is not sensors but ASICs and their relative speeds.

I don't know anything about failure rates of slower chips on a wafer, but I have always bought CPUs that were middle grade (never the fastest available) and I've never had a CPU fail... Other components yes, but not the CPU.

 

[Philipp Straehl]

I'm sure it's a great camera but Melvin is right to be a bit hesitant before dolling out close to $20k in camera and accessories; waiting past Dec31 will cost extra but if they start shipping Nov 17 we should see a lot of test videos before then.

yes, I'll wait for some footage to appear before I order. For the moment, I have the impression that Scarlet is the ideal B-cam for Epic users. It is not the run-and-gun Indie-camera we expected. If the Scarlet footage is too noisy in low light when shooting 2k, and not wide enough because of the crop, I won't buy. That'll be a huge problem for me, but it's my problem. It's not Red's fault, they are doing fine. Scarlet is good, but not good enough for me, while Epic is too expensive. I have the feeling that I'll have to wait another three years until processing power and storage costs come down to acceptable levels for low-budget filmmakers.

 

[Dave_S]

"Scarlet-X is the perfect camera for me but why I'm not rushing into buying one" Melvin- scarlet is a professional camera with one year warranty and an optional extended two years warranty on top of that. Total 3 years. If a camera can last 3 years for this price range then I don't think anyone needs to worry about its quality. secondly..its a camera from Red company which is known for caring and looking after its customers... isn't that enough to have a peace of mind. If you go according to one person's comment that the camera failed on him than you should listen to the comments of those people as well (those who make movie-budget approx 500million+).. James Cameron, Peter Jackson and all other Hollywood A list directors using Epic on all their new movies. By the way who is Philip Bloom? Has he produced/directed movie budget $100million+? $10million+?,$1million+?$500000+?,$50000+? please let us now and don't tell me he is the guy who tests small plastic DSLRs.

 

[Francesco Cammarata]

What i can't understand is why Red havn't give us any clips materials or short film to valutate the potentially of the Scarlet.

 

[Scott Crawley]

It's the same system (mostly) with slower processing... Why would the image be any different?

 

[AndrewThomas]

What i can't understand is why Red havn't give us any clips materials or short film to valutate the potentially of the Scarlet.

Because it IS an Epic, just one that is clocked slower. Set up an Epic and Scarlet with identical settings and they'll look identical.

 

[nigelsmith]

Seems like Epic still has it's problems 6 months on - no playback, EVF goes quad and needs a reboot, etc etc...... similar to Red One development over the first 18 months, so chances are Scarlet will be too.
Not having a go - i bought a Red One, after most of bugs were ironed out and full features were enabled.
Just saying the OP makes a good point.

 

[Mark Holmes]

What i can't understand is why Red havn't give us any clips materials or short film to valutate the potentially of the Scarlet.

Absolutely. People have been chomping at the bit for this camera for years. And it's shipping in two weeks... and no clips whatsoever? Come on RED - remember the girls with the milk for RED One? Give us something.

I can't imagine placing an order on a camera that has had zero clips or footage released to show it's quality. I've been buying DV cameras since my original two DVXs, going through those, HVXs, Canon 7D, Panasonic GH2s, and didn't purchase one of them without evaluating numerous clips from numerous sources, under multiple circumstances.

It's high time for some full-res clips - in R3D. Please, Jim. Please Jarred - help us make some decisions on this camera. Canon showed extensive footage on Thursday - and their camera doesn't show until Jan. 2012.

 

[Scott Miller]

Has anyone ever shot on a Canon HDSLR? The few times I have bothered... they cook themselves unless they are in a fridge!! Tried shooting @ the Canvas in Death Valley, true, it was sundown and 118F... 5 minutes and down she goes. Shooting some interior, climate controlled winery over the summer and both mine and the 7D made about 45 minutes before bye-bye time. Canon reliability? Reliably can not handle anything over 75F for very long maybe.

Yet, the R1 is such a horrid overheating, unreliable beast according to Canon fanboys.

We have shot countless interviews, 8-10 hour long interior sessions and NEVER did I loose my R1 due to heat. Could I have warmed my tea on top... yes. shut down, NO.

Point is, we see the problems of those things we want to hate/can't afford, wished existed but don't. But the things we love we ignore or defend.

I own 3 Land Rovers of varying vintage. 1960, 1971 and 1995. They leak. They are finicky. And I would NOT sell one to anyone who did not know what to expect. They are a "Professional" tool and require expertise and a realistic sense of what is required to operate them. Notice I own 3... ;-) And yes, the 1960 was used as the support and transport vehicle in Africa from '60-'65 by a pro photog, so it is pro gear

Anti-Rant over

 

[Scott Miller]

Oh, and although I wanted to and could have ordered an R1 @ the first NAB, I was working to much.

But when I did order my R1 #6732, when it arrived FedEx... it was the first one I had ever held, let alone been in the same room with. I knew who the company was comprised of, what quality it could produce IF pointed at something worth capturing AND lit/framed/exposed and directed well.

You have seen what a Scarlet can produce. As has been said here and now countless other pointless threads, Look at some Epic footage and either decide yes or no. It is from the same rib-bone as Epic. It shares 99.873% of the same DNA. Epic has all the ribs visible on the outside, Scarlet is a smooth skinned woman.

 

[Joel Kaye]

If the Scarlet footage is too noisy in low light when shooting 2k, and not wide enough because of the crop, I won't buy.

Why shoot 2K? Shoot 4KHD and resize.

If you're shooting 1080P get a Sony FS-100. Or two. Or a GH2. Or ten. There are a TON of great cameras out there. Scarlet is going to be $16K to shoot when you add a lens or two and some more media. And then there's hard drives to store it all.

You gotta have a good reason to OWN a Scarlet. Maybe rent for the good projects. Or rent EPIC. I won't be surprised to find EPICs rent for a bit more than Scarlets by next year.

7D made about 45 minutes before bye-bye time. Canon reliability? Reliably can not handle anything over 75F for very long maybe.

They fixed that in the 60D. I'm in Phoenix. I've had friends shoot for hours in the summer sunlight and report no overheating.

@others - Yes Scarlet is Epic. You've seen the footage. Unless it was slow motion. Or HDRX at 4K 24P ;-P

 

[Deanan]

I hope this doesn't mean lower quality control on the Scarlets.

Not at all.
It works in the same way that your intel CPU is tested and then speed rated.
There are way fewer of the very fastest ones that Epic needs so they cost
alot more.

Also, the slower you run everything in the system, the more you can save
from memory to board complexity, etc.