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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet-X #954 Raphael - First in Alabama? - Pics and Noise questions

Hey Randall, How much softening of the footage occurs with the Neat Plugin? The images on their website look impressive, but there is not enough resolution to really tell how soft the image gets.
Randall Brown said:
Use the exposure view to see where the noise is and if there is deep purple in the image, then It's going to be noisy. There is a good thread on exposing for the scarlet that is worth a read. The hard thing is that I think everyone thinks that at 800iso the camera is noiseless even if dark regions, but it's not. I personally rate and expose for 320, but that's just me. Also, a lot of cameras which don't shoot raw have built in noise reduction as the image is being processed. Since you are getting raw on the Red it's not doing as much of that.

Buy neat video, a noise reduction software, and give it a shot. It is pretty amazing actually. I find that just shooting and testing a lot both in production and post will give you a good "gut" on what is going to be useable and unusable as you shoot. Use your exposure view and stay out of purple and red and you will be good to go.
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Randall Brown said:
Use your exposure view and stay out of purple and red and you will be good to go.
Click to expand...

Assuming that you're not just shooting a gray card or a white wall, won't all your shots have some black in them? And won't most of those blacks fall into the "purple" range? And won't all of those "purple" areas have noise? Or do you expose your image to bring the black levels up? I guess it's just a matter of what the acceptable amount of noise is, and how you deal with it in post.

I do feel that it looks worse in the monitor than what actually gets recorded.
 
Looks to me that you are around 1 and 1/2 to 2 stops underexposed at least. Tungsten balance lighting only adds to the problem as the sensor is native daylight balanced. ISO 800 is great but I get the best results at ISO 400. And make sure that the histogram is nice and full. Don't leave all the info down to the left. Hope that helps
 
I think if you don't order the scarlet as a package, and get the LCD separately, you get a 12" instead of a 7" cable. Wish I figured that out before I ordered.
 
Depends on how much noise is there. I have been really impressed with it and most of the time I can't tell the hit, but I don't ever really shoot crazy high ISO with no lights and expect it to be perfect. But for shots that you just have to recover, it really does wonders. They manage not to munch up shots too much. I will try and post some examples next week, when I am back from production, but my biggest advice is to test test test.

Carelton Holt said:
Hey Randall, How much softening of the footage occurs with the Neat Plugin? The images on their website look impressive, but there is not enough resolution to really tell how soft the image gets.
Click to expand...
 
Taylor Morrison said:
Looks to me that you are around 1 and 1/2 to 2 stops underexposed at least. Tungsten balance lighting only adds to the problem as the sensor is native daylight balanced. ISO 800 is great but I get the best results at ISO 400. And make sure that the histogram is nice and full. Don't leave all the info down to the left. Hope that helps
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That does help a lot! I plan to do some more testing with the advice everyone has given me. Thank you for taking the time to offer the info...I'm sure this will help me out a lot!
 
@Bill,

The exposure view is looking at how much light is hitting the sensor across the frame. You can easily have blacks in the scene but be above the noise floor and be above 0 IRE. If you look at your histogram it will be to the "right". There won't be anything downlow to the left, your noise bar on the left wont be lit red at all, and in exposure view you won't see any purple. Now when you shoot this footage, and play it back at RedGamma 2 it will look lower contrast and slightly washed out. Blacks won't be rich black. This is OK. You simply adjust your curves in post, bringing down the "blacks" to "black" (toward the left on the histogram and 0 IRE on the waveform) and voila nice deep rich blacks and no noise.

When you get down to low levels of light hitting the sensor that's where noise lives. I haven't gotten scientific and measured at what light level (what IRE) starts to et noisy. But luckily red has and that is what it's showing you in exposure view. It's saying, "hey this part of you picture is dark and it's going to have noise it and less defi iron and detail because not a lot of light is making it to me here at the sensor".

Shooting raw you have to play within the goal posts that red gives you. Ideally a scene in exposure view, has no purple and no red. Both goalposts are empty, and the stop lights aren't lit. Quite frankly I like to allow as much light as possible to hit the sensor, but stay between the two extremes. Sometimes you can't do that, because that range from light to dark is too broad for the Sensor, then you have to make a choice. Get some NDs, Keep the highlights, keep the shadows noise free... Or use HDRX on your Epic :)

Don't trust your eyes, use your tools. This RAW video thing is different. You can monitor however you want 1600 IS0, it can look clean on your monitor on board, but go instead by what the tools say in exposure mode, your goal posts, stop lights and raw view. I personally like to set my exposure based on 320 ISO and I am super careful to not clip the highlights.

Sorry for the long winded response

Ben Pluimer said:
Assuming that you're not just shooting a gray card or a white wall, won't all your shots have some black in them? And won't most of those blacks fall into the "purple" range? And won't all of those "purple" areas have noise? Or do you expose your image to bring the black levels up? I guess it's just a matter of what the acceptable amount of noise is, and how you deal with it in post.

I do feel that it looks worse in the monitor than what actually gets recorded.
Click to expand...
 
FYI, the color temp isn't right, nor is the tint. Also, try moving ISO a bit closer to 500, then adjust curves (including messing with RGB channels) and FLUT. You'll still be left with some noise, but perhaps a more pleasing image to start with.
 
Randall Brown said:
Don't trust your eyes, use your tools. This RAW video thing is different. You can monitor however you want 1600 IS0, it can look clean on your monitor on board, but go instead by what the tools say in exposure mode, your goal posts, stop lights and raw view. I personally like to set my exposure based on 320 ISO and I am super careful to not clip the highlights.

Sorry for the long winded response
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Thank you for the long winded response! This helps a lot.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
FYI, the color temp isn't right, nor is the tint. Also, try moving ISO a bit closer to 500, then adjust curves (including messing with RGB channels) and FLUT. You'll still be left with some noise, but perhaps a more pleasing image to start with.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the info. The WB wasn't right and the tint was set from another shot, I fixed this when I was in Redcine-X but wanted to post the default settings.

It is interesting that before I got my cam everyone said to shoot at 800 ISO, and I hear from a lot of people the prefer 320-500. I guess everyone needs to do their own tests and see what they prefer.
 
dj ditt said:
Thanks for the info. The WB wasn't right and the tint was set from another shot, I fixed this when I was in Redcine-X but wanted to post the default settings.

It is interesting that before I got my cam everyone said to shoot at 800 ISO, and I hear from a lot of people the prefer 320-500. I guess everyone needs to do their own tests and see what they prefer.
Click to expand...
Your last sentence is correct.
 
Thanks everyone for all the tips. I shot all day this Friday and Saturday, and the tips helped out greatly! I knew it was something that I was/wasn't doing and just needed to get used to the Red exposure/workflow. Still a lot to learn, but much better than before.
 
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