Scarlet wide...

[Christoffer Glans]

They should look and learn something about shooting and desiring
WIDE

I'm young and fresh in the industry but I still think Six Feet Under, Kubrick, Gilliam, Peter Jackson etc. achieve very interesting visuals with their use of wides.
One thing is that wides put the audience much more into the story's world then long lenses. Wide make them be there and feel the depth, while longer lenses put them back in a distance from what they are viewing.
Television use long lenses to such an extent that it's making me sick. Lost started out with some really awesome visuals but now it's the regular Halfshot - face closeup...

And when working with high resolution, you don't need closeups as much as with SD. You can see the expressions without going "in your face" with the camera. But what happen when your not making a movie on a soundstage? When you are on location and don't have the room for normal lenses to get that fullshot or even the halfshot, then it's crucial to be able to go wide.

And what type of camera is Scarlet? If Red One and Epic will be used on soundstages, then maybe without much thinking, the obvious answer is that Scarlet will be used on many types of locations.

As for wide in the world of cinema it's also a very hard thing to work with. Composition must be perfect and you always need to know what you have in the background so you don't get that big antenna sticking up through the actors head.

Would you say the same thing to Kubrick when he choose 10mm for the labyrinth in Shining?

I think we all know what we are talking about when wanting wide, at least I do because being in the industry isn't the same as having knowledge about it.
I started photographing 7 years ago, but I'm still young and a "newbie".
But I know what I want when wanting wide...

just to give an example of a young newbie

Also it is not about how a human sees in normal or working daily conditions

So you shoot 50mm all the time, is that what you mean? 7mm is extreme, but wide starts at about 35mm and downwards.
It's not about how humans see the world, it's how the story is told...

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Shining is a psycho-thriller and also Clockwork Orange.

Kubrick wanted to INVITE you as a normal audience in a crazy world of the characters in those two films.

Don't forget that Kubrick was mastering mostly psycho-thrillers to tell you in which world you are living.

But that newest movie trend or film genre is at the declining point of THAT movement.

There is no new Kubrick of today.

And all new films in that way just get boring.

At the end "newbie" or "young" also means also to be HOOKED on... .

 

[Christoffer Glans]

You should know that everything is trend in movies.

Current big trends is:
* Lack of music with more extended sounddesign
* Hard light instead of soft sources.

I see your opinion is just about not liking wide angles, but I do not think you could say

And all new films in that way just get boring.

because that is like saying that every new movie that use some of these trends is going to be boring, without regard of context.

And to make people "go into a crazy world" is just one way of telling stories with images. You can tell it "throught" the characters or you could tell it as an observer. You can also tellit through an object or do whatever original ways of point of view you like.

But it's still a practical range for certain locations and it's also a way for getting depth. It's all about how you use it and what you believe is the best way of telling your story.

So, if it's a declining trend to use wide angles, then go against the trend then :tongue:

Still, it's a range that differs from other visual medias and I think cinema is more "wide" then television... with the exception of Six Feet Under

 

[Jason Ramsey]

My only request is attention to the macro focusing capabilities of the lens.

35mm adapters will be very popular to use with this camera, so having good macro abilities will be an important thing in making sure that scarlet plays nicely with the 35mm adapter world.

If this camera performs well with 35mm adapters, it's pure gold to the micro budget indie crowd. And, for the folks who have no idea about 35 adapters, well the camera is still pure gold for them

Later,
Jason

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

My only request is attention to the macro focusing capabilities of the lens.

35mm adapters will be very popular to use with this camera, so having good macro abilities will be an important thing in making sure that scarlet plays nicely with the 35mm adapter world.

If this camera performs well with 35mm adapters, it's pure gold to the micro budget indie crowd. And, for the folks who have no idea about 35 adapters, well the camera is still pure gold for them

Later,
Jason

Should not be any 35 mm adapter involved.

Or should be possible to swap or unscrew the fixed (RED) lens from Scarlet

and to allow third parties to build a new interchangeable lens mount.

No adapters involved because of the spinning glass where you can loose 1 or 1 1/2 stop of light.

Nobody needs that.

Also I already suggested use of Four-Thirds lenses.

We need a help of Erik Birger sort of guy for that.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

You don't need adapters, 2/3 is enough DOF.

Still, I'm also wondering about the macro ability... how close can we get with the camera? If we are able to fill the frame with a close up of an eye (like in lost) that would be really good.

 

[Bing Bailey]

My only request is attention to the macro focusing capabilities of the lens.

35mm adapters will be very popular to use with this camera, so having good macro abilities will be an important thing in making sure that scarlet plays nicely with the 35mm adapter world.

If this camera performs well with 35mm adapters, it's pure gold to the micro budget indie crowd. And, for the folks who have no idea about 35 adapters, well the camera is still pure gold for them

Later,
Jason

Jason those adaptors are all built to work with 1/3 sensors. they aren't likely to work with scarlet. the pro35 might but that costs $35k . new adaptors maybe brought out that will function.

 

[Jason Ramsey]

Sure they will. Cinevate and Letus both have mounts in the works for 2/3"... Letus had a prototype that I saw in Hien's hands at NAB. You can bet that the 35mm adapter makers are closely watching the development of Scarlet, and I'm sure they would all like to get their hands on it as soon as possible, so as they can have an adapter that performs well with Scarlet from day one.

2/3" isn't enough if you want 35mm DOF

Surely, there are tradeoffs when using 35mm adapters, but there are always tradeoffs. That's the nature of the beast... And, a 3k for 3k$ scarlet with a 35mm adapter is a very attractive setup for the micro budget crowd like myself.

Later,
Jason

 

[Christoffer Glans]

But using a 2/3 sensor at 2.8 is like using a 35mm lens at I think somewhere of 5.6mm and if you look at large 35mm productions that is what they use most of the time. Yes, I also like the supershallow DOF, but there are more downsides with adapters then there are good sides...
Especially on a 3K camera...

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

No any LENS adapter for SCARLET, please!!!.

We would need a real interchangeable mount.

2/3" lenses cost a fortune.

FourThirds lenses are only way to go.

 

[John Caballero]

The Scarlet will become big business; adapter makers will definitely be ready with new goodies for it. And no, the lens won’t unscrew, although whoever can’t understand it is going to be fixed, can saw it off if they want. :biggrin:

 

[Max Link]

No any LENS adapter for SCARLET, please!!!.

We would need a real interchangeable mount.

Sanjin, I must admire your perseverance, but hey, it's probably not going to happen for scarlet, simply because scarlet is supposed to be a compact camera and moving the optics (that is, your desired 4/3 mount) closer to the outside of the package would enlarge the whole device tremendously, as has often been said here.

Also, I think people will want to use 35mm adapters with scarlet regardless of the light loss, since more options with the glass give you far more creative freedom than just shallower DOF...
I, for example, own a set of Yashica primes for SLR from the 70s(!) that I absolutely love to use with 35mm adapters on SD, since they create so many internal reflections etc that they give you really extraordinary light capture, and I'd love to keep on exploiting that fault with a Scarlet behind it, with the final footage in 1080p.
What you've got to keep in mind is that it's not all about maximum light gain in available light situations or getting maximum res shooting test charts - I believe the "creative options" some people who will use 35mm adapters with Scarlet have in mind have nothing to do with perfect tech, but with using a wonderful little tool to be able to output their visual ideas at higher quality.

What I forgot to say: I love the zoom range of the lens and support the pleas for best possible macro focussing capabilities, for obvious reasons.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Doesn't matter, there should be filterscrewes on the Scarlet lens so someone will of course try and mount a mini35 adapter on it anyway... even if I don't need to I will probably test it out with my brevis35, so it's not like we should take a collective cyanide capsule just because some want to use their mini35's on Scarlet

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Four Thirds lens in action: LEICA D VARIO-ELMARIT 14-50mm f2.8-3.5 ASPH.

LINK>>>

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Four Thirds lens in action

So?
Are you hired by them or what is it? Still that image doesn't say anything...

 

[Garth Philpot]

She's hot !!!
:glare:

 

[Garth Philpot]

The four thirds lenses are nice , Zuiko are making some nice stuff for Olympus DSLR's . the DOF is nice and shallow in that shot . Sanjin , I saw your post on the lens thread Jim started regarding the four thirds lenses . Would they match the sensor perfectly ? Also , I know one could crop the image , but people generally prefer the 16-9 ratio for cinematography ...

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Sanjin, I must admire your perseverance, but hey, it's probably not going to happen for scarlet, simply because scarlet is supposed to be a compact camera and moving the optics (that is, your desired 4/3 mount) closer to the outside of the package would enlarge the whole device tremendously, as has often been said here.

Also, I think people will want to use 35mm adapters with scarlet regardless of the light loss, since more options with the glass give you far more creative freedom than just shallower DOF...
I, for example, own a set of Yashica primes for SLR from the 70s(!) that I absolutely love to use with 35mm adapters on SD, since they create so many internal reflections etc that they give you really extraordinary light capture, and I'd love to keep on exploiting that fault with a Scarlet behind it, with the final footage in 1080p.
What you've got to keep in mind is that it's not all about maximum light gain in available light situations or getting maximum res shooting test charts - I believe the "creative options" some people who will use 35mm adapters with Scarlet have in mind have nothing to do with perfect tech, but with using a wonderful little tool to be able to output their visual ideas at higher quality.

What I forgot to say: I love the zoom range of the lens and support the pleas for best possible macro focussing capabilities, for obvious reasons.

I said very clear that Scarlet should be sold with a fixed lens just because of

price point but also said that should be "officially allowed"

to different third parties like with PS Technik,

Birger Engineering, etc,... to build an interchangeable lens mount on Scarlet,

but not an adapter. That means to be possible to swap or unscrew Scarlet's

fixed zoom lens and on this place to replace an interchangeable mount.

So if you don't need any interchangeable mount on Scarlet you would never

go this route and would stay happy with fixed zoom lens.

If you are in need to have sort of interchangeable mount than go this route

and change the Scarlet's mount with additional costs of doing that.

 

[Wiyum]

The standard Scarlet zoom will begin at 28mm (still full frame 35mm reference).

So this sounds like roughly 7-56mm, give or take? I had my heart set on 6-48, and secretly wanted to see 5-40 (my first three HD shorts were all on the F900 with that initial six-lens set of Zeiss Digiprimes; I got to know 5, 7, 10, 14, 20 and 40mm pretty intimately on those shows). 7-56 isn't bad though.

If 7-56 indeed ends up being the choice, I'm anxious to hear more about these adaptors, and how they might outperform those that some of us might have run across.

 

[wardovision]

I said very clear that Scarlet should be sold with a fixed lens just because of

price point but also said that should be "officially allowed"

to different third parties like with PS Technik,

Birger Engineering, etc,... to build an interchangeable lens mount on Scarlet,

but not an adapter. That means to be possible to swap or unscrew Scarlet's

fixed zoom lens and on this place to replace an interchangeable mount.

I must be missing something here. How can a lens mount be both fixed and interchangeable at the same time?