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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet vs Canon 1DC...?

Peer Landa said:
Well, to me it still relates to the simple fact that 'the more I spend, the longer I need it to last' -- i.e., if getting an Epic, which cost three times as much as an 1DC -- I need it to last a bit longer than the timespan of an 1DC. Hence, when spending this kind of money, I'd hate to see it replaced/rebated before its "time is up" compared to the 1DC.


-- peer
Click to expand...

This is precisely where RED changes the paradigm: they obsolete obsolesence. Epic uogrades to Dragon. Scarlet upgrades to Dragon. The 1Dc has no upgrade path. The c500 has no upgrade path.

As for price drops, who among us isn't happy to get a second, third, or fouth camera at a screaming discount compared to the first?
 
I love all cameras, but honestly.... C500...... Really?

8vrd.jpg
 
Peer Landa said:
Well, to me it still relates to the simple fact that 'the more I spend, the longer I need it to last' -- i.e., if getting an Epic, which cost three times as much as an 1DC -- I need it to last a bit longer than the timespan of an 1DC. Hence, when spending this kind of money, I'd hate to see it replaced/rebated before its "time is up" compared to the 1DC.


-- peer
Click to expand...

You have heard of the Dragon upgrade, correct?

...talk about buying a badass camera that is upgradeable. What more do you want?
 
Have used both recently, and an Epic. Pros and cons for me:

1DC:

Pros- Full Frame look. 35mm DOF.
4K footage looks gorgeous out of the camera. Mjpeg works surprisingly well.
Standard CF cards- but requires VERY FAST ones at that.
basically a 1DX for stills, which is Canon's current top of the line professional photo camera.
Price, in my opinion, is good.
Form Factor fantastic for guerrilla, low key shooting.
Very good low light

CONS- 1080P codec not good. Downsampled image miles away from the 4K MJPEG footage
Very strong Rolling shutter artefacts
Requires fast CF cards, really fast cards. 4K files are much bigger than Redcode redcode raw
Audio connection, Monitoring, cabling all pretty lacklustre
While the 4K image is good, its in no way the same league as Red Epic/Scarlet level. Scarlet footage with much more "information" Colors in 1DC and look backed in/ but can install Cinestyle look in the user looks.
Very big difference between codecs means big difference in post quality. SCarlets Redcode and different recording modes don't have as much of an impact as the 1DC codecs have.
Form factor not modular, and not upgradeable (can upgrade firmware).

Scarlet:

Pros:

Great Picture
Less Rolling Shutter
High Speed up to 60fps in 2K
Redcode Raw much better than Mjpeg
Modular form factor
Red LCD, Side Handle, SSD for an SLR like form factor are much better than 1DC in terms of ergonomics.
Canon Mount more developed than 1DC one.

Cons- APSC sensor/frame.
More expensive including the essential modules for basic SLR form factor
Requires more work in Post production
Low light not on the same level as 1DC.
Side Handle Redvolts have very small duration- 20 minutes each (I compare both in similar form factors)
A bit heavier.

I would go Scarlet without any doubt. But if i could, would have both. I was really, really impressed by the 1DC output quality in 4K. Its actually a great Event 4K 25p Stealth cam, provided you don't have much movement. And its one of the best still cameras short of Medium format that money can buy. A great B cam for both Scarlet and Epic.
 
i agree with Sergio..the form factor of the 1dc is cool…and it is a powerful camera…for future proofing in digital format ..then the scarlet…for film ..a used movie cam sl..small light 35mm
 
peer

did you try the new ml hack on your canon…that's the easiest thing to do…or like the other post said RENT..the climate now for a digital camera.. is you don't know what a camera will be worth next month
 
For me, and the work that we do commercially, the only thing that would beat a Epic/Scarlet is having a Global Shutter on the camera, which we can now have with motion mount. The addition of the ND is just mind blowing for quick turn around shooting too... to reproduce the same 'control' over the image with a DSLR would require a mattebox, which would then loose you the size and weight advantage of the secret shooting that some have mentioned.

I like what Quentin Tarantino said in the Hollywood Reported round table - "This digital S#!$ is not what i signed up for, have you seen the image out of these things" as the look of Digital is still relatively different to film. I feel that my time with the 1DC was further away from that look than the red, by quite a lot. It look a lot more electronic, and from a commercial point of view you are restricted by the fact that the camera is still a DSLR with all the audio and monitoring 'accessories' you need to make it all work.
 
The 1DX is very nice but has one issue worth mentioning. If you want to shoot stills at maximum frame rate it can only do so when the lens is fully open, it seems it can't shoot at maximum frame rate as it can't operate the lens iris quick enough. The 1DC is nice too as is the C500. I had the opportunity to test C500 in low light recently and have to say it was very good, the recent 80,000 will be an improvement on our 20,000 tests. If Canon would build in to the C500 camera a suitable recorder to CF or SSD and redesign the form factor then Id be very interested. I own many Canon Stills cameras and EF and FD lenses and they are all excellent.

However, for our motion picture work Im not selling any of our Epics and intend to buy more with Dragon sensor.
 
dio Zafi said:
..the climate now for a digital camera.. is you don't know what a camera will be worth next month
Click to expand...



Yep, and since I've been kickin' the can down the road for this long, I might as well wait until next NAB and see what's in the 4K pipe -- hopefully a 10-bit 1DC or some price "adjustments" from RED ;^)


-- peer
 
Not to beat a dead horse more dead (or 'deaderer' as the kids might say) -- but when it comes to lowlight, does the 1DC still have an advantage over the Scarlet Dragon..?


-- peer (is currently in purchasing mode)
 
Peer Landa said:
Not to beat a dead horse more dead (or 'deaderer' as the kids might say) -- but when it comes to lowlight, does the 1DC still have an advantage over the Scarlet Dragon..?


-- peer (is currently in purchasing mode)
Click to expand...

I'm gonna say, for absolute sure. The 1DC, if looked at for Low Light ability only, will kill the Scarlet Dragon (based on the 6K stuff I've donwloaded so far, even with noise reduction) But to keep beating the horse:

1DC DSLR Pro's:

Amazing in Low light
Size and weight
Complete and ready to shoot
Battery longevity
Weather Sealed
Doesn't attract attention like a RED does (for some people that's a con hehe)
Also a stills camera (don't tell me red is a stills camera until it shoots 100% cropped sharp 21mp images and has the form-factor of a stills camera)

1DC DSLR Con's (and deal breakers):

8-bit, highly compressed, deliverable codec only
Not RAW
Dynamic Range
 
Peer Landa said:
Not to beat a dead horse more dead (or 'deaderer' as the kids might say) -- but when it comes to lowlight, does the 1DC still have an advantage over the Scarlet Dragon..?


-- peer (is currently in purchasing mode)
Click to expand...

wait for the a7s sony. supports 4k raw and is twice as good as the 1dc in low light
 
Scarlet-Dragon or EPIC-Dragon all the way. I would even prefer a Scarlet-MX over the 1Dc, but thats me. (Keep in mind, you can upgrade to EPIC and/or Dragon).
If you want something with less bulk and weight, i would add(!) the Sony A7S or Panasonic GH4 to the kit. Those two cameras can't replace what a RED does, but in some cases they're probably a good option.

The 1DC, i don't know, i wouldn't buy it. The C-part of it isn't enough for me.

On a side-note, if Pentax includes clean 4k-HDMI on it's Pentax 645z this would be another very interesting option.
 
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