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Scarlet Upgrade Possibilities, Best Way to Spend Money

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Michael Kontaxis

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Hey RED Team,

First of all... AMAZING job with the Scarlet! I mean it... you guys have absolutely blown it out of the park in every way, I am thoroughly impressed.

I have two questions... first off, if I were to purchase a Scarlet 2/3" when it comes out, and I used it for about a year while I continued to save money, will there be some sort of an upgrade path for a Scarlet user who would like to upgrade to the S35? I don't mean this to sound demanding whatsoever... I couldn't ask for more than you have given already. I just would like to know so that the money I spend will go in the right place... I'd hate to make a 7000 dollar purchase I end up regretting.

My second question is this: If I have 7000-8000 dollars to spend, and I would like to use this camera to shoot short films and potentially a feature, what do you think the best RED purchase would be?

I appreciate any help I can get, and I can't thank you enough for what you are doing for the film industry. You guys are pioneers!

Thanks,

Michael
 
I'm not RED but I can tell you rigth off the bat that if you have $7,000-$8,000 for a whole camera kit (i.e something that you buy, plus recording media and off you go to shoot like prosumer cameras) then Buy the 2/3 fixed and spend the rest of your money on recording media, an upgrade here or there (REDMOTE PRO, IO MODULE, BOMB EVF, RAILS etc.)

2/3 format can be very cinematic. You can have shallow depth of field by opening on the lens, zooming in and lighting to taste. Thee are also plenty of cinematic movies with broader depth of field.

The mysterium X will give you better low light results on the 8x fixed than a Red One with f1.2 lenses (based my calculation on the iso 320 vs 800 claim, T1.2 vs T2.8).

The 2/3 format comes out before the S35.

$7,000 for the S35 brain is a steal but you can't make movies with a fancy paperweight.
Go for as complete a package as you can afford and do your best with it.

I hope this helps.
 
if you have 7000-8000 dollars to spend total, the fixed lens 2/3 is your ONLY option if you are buying RED (unless you plan on going over that amount over time).

Any other option will cost more than that when you add up everything you will need unless you have access to lenses or you already own them. And even then, if you add up the cost of the accessories you would need, anything else would probably still be out of reach.

Unless RED comes out with some kind of package deal for the other scarlet's that includes accessories like they are doing with the 2/3 fixed.

Also, the upgrade path basically works like this; you keep all your accessories and then sell your brain. Then use the money you got from selling your brain to buy whatever upgraded brain you would like and all the accessories you've bought will still be able to be used with your new brain.
 
you're probably also going to need to buy more batteries, you'll need some media to record on, a shoulder mount, bottom plate or something to make it a little more hand-holdable ... I'd plan on spending around $8000 for the fixed + accessories.
 
you can make as bare bones of a package as you want, all you really need is a cf module, cf card, power and a lens to start.

want more then go battery cf, cf card, redmote, 2.8 lcd, 1 wide mini prime, pl mount, and cheap pl zoom.

I'm going to start with what I can afford and build from there that is the beauty in this system.
 
S.Matthews said:
you can make as bare bones of a package as you want, all you really need is a cf module, cf card, power and a lens to start.

want more then go battery cf, cf card, redmote, 2.8 lcd, 1 wide mini prime, pl mount, and cheap pl zoom.

I'm going to start with what I can afford and build from there that is the beauty in this system.
Click to expand...

Don't forget some sort of viewing option - LCD, EVF, etc.
 
I think its important for me to note that the 7000-8000 dollars is not throughout the system's life, but right up front. I really would like to see clips/still images from the Scarlet 8x Fixed, and the Removable Pro-Primes, and the S35 so that I can see visually the difference. RED Team... is there a chance we'll get some quick shots from the different cameras to compare and contrast in the near future?
 
I don't think there is much of an upgrade option, but since everything is modular, anything you purchase for a 2/3 scarlet will work with an S35(brain) if you decide to pick one up later down the road.
 
ok. so i'm a complete newb and i am stoked about getting into film and directing. the reason that i'm loking for a scarlet setup is because i believe that your tools should limit you as little as possible as you learn any new craft. and obviously as you can see fro th Red One, the sky is the limit. i don't wanna shoot documentaries, family get-togethers ect. i want to shoot MOVIES, TV pilots/shows. period. i was eying the canon 5d and the 1d mark 4 but i just can't pull the trigger from things i've seen done with them. don't get me wrong the can handle indie films in the right hands but Steven Spielberg couldn't garner real movies or TV out of them. VDSLRS are good for weddings, indies, music videos and commercials but that's it. having said all that, my questions to you good, knowledgeable people are:

is 2/3 fixed scarlet worth my time? what's a good estated max that a ready to shoot, with all the modules, ff35 setup cost me? am i better off just spending 30k on a red one setup? if i could care less about shooting in 3k or 4k and 1080 is fine for now, what's an acceptable mac setup? the new quad imacs or does it have to be a macpro set up to even get some editing done?
 
heavyonline said:
ok. so i'm a complete newb and i am stoked about getting into film and directing. the reason that i'm loking for a scarlet setup is because i believe that your tools should limit you as little as possible as you learn any new craft. and obviously as you can see fro th Red One, the sky is the limit. i don't wanna shoot documentaries, family get-togethers ect. i want to shoot MOVIES, TV pilots/shows. period. i was eying the canon 5d and the 1d mark 4 but i just can't pull the trigger from things i've seen done with them. don't get me wrong the can handle indie films in the right hands but Steven Spielberg couldn't garner real movies or TV out of them. VDSLRS are good for weddings, indies, music videos and commercials but that's it. having said all that, my questions to you good, knowledgeable people are:

is 2/3 fixed scarlet worth my time? what's a good estated max that a ready to shoot, with all the modules, ff35 setup cost me? am i better off just spending 30k on a red one setup? if i could care less about shooting in 3k or 4k and 1080 is fine for now, what's an acceptable mac setup? the new quad imacs or does it have to be a macpro set up to even get some editing done?
Click to expand...

Exactly the question I was trying to ask, stated more bluntly. Which is the cheapest setup that could handle a movie?
 
Fixed Scarlet. Its the cheapest ready to shoot item(s) RED offers.

Movies have already been shot with less capability than it appears the fixed Scarlet will give to you. You'll have compromises that a crew shooting with a few RED1s and primes and proper ffs and matteboxes wont have to deal with, but you can shoot certain types of stories with the fixed Scarlet and have a good time doing it.

Happy shooting.
 
your'll be able to shoot a full feature that looks great on the fixed just fine, as said there will be compromises (as with most cameras) but they wont be anything you can't over come easily. The quality of the final movie won't be limited by the fixed scarlet it'll be limited by your ability to use it and your crews ability to do there jobs, i.e, lighting, acting etc. its a great cam choice for a tight budget, if you really need more lenses get yourself an adapter, if you don't like the low light capabilty shot the scene lit and do a day to night conversion in post etc etc, theres always a way round most problems :smile:
 
"It's not the size of the sensor that counts, it's what you do with it." :laugh:
 
I think I'm convinced to get the 2/3 inch Scarlet. However, if I do so, will there be a future upgrade option to the S35, or even the Epic?
 
Here are a couple minimum shooting packages I came up with. You will likely need more lenses, batteries and recording media but these are base packages you can build on. Keep in mind that RED may offer discount base packages for the interchangeable Scarlet brains as well.


  • Fixed lens Scarlet kit + 16gb CF card - $5,245
  • 2.3" Cinema brain + CF side module + 16gb CF card + 2.8" touchscreen LCD + Side handle + 16mm miniRED prime - $6,545
  • S35 Scarlet brain + CF side module + 16gb CF card + 2.8" touchscreen LCD + Side handle + Nikor 24mm prime ($200) - $10,045
 
What would be the best reason to go with the non fixed lens? Would it be the ease of switching bodies and still having lenses? The video quality is the same and stuff right?
 
Does anybody know how many minutes of footage you get on a 16gb CF card with the 2/3" Scarlet shoot in 3K raw mode?
 
Ive got heaps of Nikon lenses, so I was looking at buying the 2/3 with a Nikon mount. However, the more I think about it, the more I think Im just gonna go for a fixed, as the lens has roughly the same range as my lenses, and spend the extra money on a more complete kit.

Probably a sensible plan for you too.
 
Justin O'Neill said:
Here are a couple minimum shooting packages I came up with. You will likely need more lenses, batteries and recording media but these are base packages you can build on. Keep in mind that RED may offer discount base packages for the interchangeable Scarlet brains as well.



  • Fixed lens Scarlet kit + 16gb CF card - $5,245
  • 2.3" Cinema brain + CF side module + 16gb CF card + 2.8" touchscreen LCD + Side handle + 16mm miniRED prime - $6,545
  • S35 Scarlet brain + CF side module + 16gb CF card + 2.8" touchscreen LCD + Side handle + Nikor 24mm prime ($200) - $10,045
Click to expand...
I think $6,545 is a reasonable price for producing something that can be shown on the big screen. I totally understand that there is argument that it is about the story, lighting, skill of the production team etc - and I totally agree... but the inherent production value that can be achieved with something like this would certainly help making any feature film you make more marketable - particularly in these times of Blu-Ray...
[Yay.. first post on RedUser.. although I dont have a Red yet, I'm totally going for the:
2.3" Cinema brain + CF side module + 16gb CF card + 2.8" touchscreen LCD + Side handle + 16mm miniRED prime - $6,545
option to replace my ailling JVC HD110!]
 
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