Scarlet update in mid-May

[Rick Burnett]

woah! i love red as well but a 2/3 inch Fixed camera is worth $7,000 why?

there are plenty of competitors at that price doing just as much more than the 2/3 fixed will be able to do (at 7 k)

at what point do you just decide to buy a used red one... the scarlet shoots 1080 p (3k down rezed)

i will buy one I am on the fence of which i can justify thinking very hard about epic but a red one w/ mysterium x will really be a great camera even for many years to come

I think maybe people are confused by this statement you made. You said "there are plenty of competitors at that price doing just as much more than the 2/3 fixed will be able to do (at 7 k)" The $7k was in fact mentioned by someone else, but that's not the question asked back. I believe Terry is genuinely curious as to what other cameras in the $7k range are even close to the Scarlet Fixed. I myself have looked around and haven't found anything remotely close. People here are genuinely trying to discuss this with you but you aren't helping by not explaining or showing examples of what you mean.

 

[David Rasberry]

i was quoting someone else ..

and i never complained about price increase ..

when i asked why someone would pay 7000 for the fixed i was scolded ...

now i have to defend myself

i will excuse myself from this conversation

thanks

Please don't take it personally. It was meant as an honest if enthusiatic reply, not a scolding.

It just seems to me sometimes that people don't get how radically different Scarlet really is from anything else in the under 10k market, even the 2/3" fixed.

 

[chrislancaster]

Please don't take it personally. It was meant as an honest if enthusiatic reply, not a scolding.

It just seems to me sometimes that people don't get how radically different Scarlet really is from anything else in the under 10k market, even the 2/3" fixed.

i wont mention the competition here out of respect for RED


really its a fixed lens .. a lot of people feel the dof is a big part of cinema and that the fixed will be more of a documentary camera


on a positive note im really hoping they give us built in time lapse with scarlet ..

timelapse + hdr = very interesting

 

[Rick Burnett]

really its a fixed lens .. a lot of people feel the dof is a big part of cinema and that the fixed will be more of a documentary camera

on a positive note im really hoping they give us built in time lapse with scarlet ..

timelapse + hdr = very interesting

For me I need the fixed lens for fight scenes. I'm involved with a group that does martial arts movies and shallow DoF is just too difficult to work with on these high energy fast moving scenes.

Time lapse would be awesome. If I recall correctly, I believe they mentioned that there would be some sort of open API with the camera. If it's not built in, maybe with talking to the camera through another device (iPhone) could also yield some even additionally awesome capabilities for automation and such.

I had considered just not getting the Fixed and save up straight for the S35, but I have a feeling for REALLY DEEP DoF the Fixed is going to be really nice on low light. In addition, the high speed frame rate is really nice to use in fight scenes and other planned scenes we have with capturing people falling in water and such.

 

[chrislancaster]

For me I need the fixed lens for fight scenes. I'm involved with a group that does martial arts movies and shallow DoF is just too difficult to work with on these high energy fast moving scenes.

Time lapse would be awesome. If I recall correctly, I believe they mentioned that there would be some sort of open API with the camera. If it's not built in, maybe with talking to the camera through another device (iPhone) could also yield some even additionally awesome capabilities for automation and such.

I had considered just not getting the Fixed and save up straight for the S35, but I have a feeling for REALLY DEEP DoF the Fixed is going to be really nice on low light. In addition, the high speed frame rate is really nice to use in fight scenes and other planned scenes we have with capturing people falling in water and such.

Rick thanks that will be very interesting ... i can imagine some smooth slow mo fighting with 120 fps

i was thinking about hdr time lapse .. what if the camera created the hdr and you could set your time lapse to be all hdr photos

wow that would be sick

 

[Rick Burnett]

We've been experimenting with fake glass and 60fps at the moment, I cannot wait to be playing with that at 120! I know I'm going to be recording like glasses breaking, water drops, all kinds of stuff

Jim alluded to a whole new HDR capability on these cameras. There was A LOT of discussion about it, but they didn't leak any info to us to really understand. Given this capability will be available in video, that must mean for sure it is available in stills mode. Even further, they made a distinction that HDR is not tone mapping, so I am not sure exactly what method we'll use to take that larger dynamic range into a visible range on our current displays. Whatever it is, I cannot wait.

I'll also say the rack focus electronically is going to be neat. One thing I am REALLY looking forward to is I use the poor mans jib arm, a monopod with a camera at the end. With the redmote detachable, I can pop it off and attach it to the bottom of the arm with an LCD screen and remotely control the entire operation of the camera from the get go. I LOVE this ability. I like to call it 'Camera on a stick' because I can move it all over the place easily. I'll probably end up going to the redmote pro when it is available just to have that larger focus wheel.

 

[Philip Lipetz]

We've been experimenting with fake glass and 60fps at the moment, I cannot wait to be playing with that at 120! I know I'm going to be recording like glasses breaking, water drops, all kinds of stuff

Jim alluded to a whole new HDR capability on these cameras. There was A LOT of discussion about it, but they didn't leak any info to us to really understand. Given this capability will be available in video, that must mean for sure it is available in stills mode. Even further, they made a distinction that HDR is not tone mapping, so I am not sure exactly what method we'll use to take that larger dynamic range into a visible range on our current displays. Whatever it is, I cannot wait.

I'll also say the rack focus electronically is going to be neat. One thing I am REALLY looking forward to is I use the poor mans jib arm, a monopod with a camera at the end. With the redmote detachable, I can pop it off and attach it to the bottom of the arm with an LCD screen and remotely control the entire operation of the camera from the get go. I LOVE this ability. I like to call it 'Camera on a stick' because I can move it all over the place easily. I'll probably end up going to the redmote pro when it is available just to have that larger focus wheel.

Look at the Zacuto tests of film and hybrid SLRs, the big difference is dynamic range. Video cams also cannot deliver the best dynamic range. If the dynamic range on the Scarlet is HDR then it is absurd to compare it to video alternatives that do not have that range. Totally different beasts recording to similar media.

 

[Tom.Wong]

rick, you should just strap 100 GOPRO cameras to your martial arts guys and let them have at it! THOSE THINGS ARE AWESOME!!

But back on topic, RED wants it all IMHO, they'll compete in every market they think is plausible and want to kill the competition. 2/3 for the ENG market, fixed for the lowest cost solutions, full on s35 cinema camera which will be a great intermediate/camera B,C,D,E,F,G for Epic. A solution for a huge percentage of the camera market.

 

[Ameer Azari]

I'd laugh if the announcement was more 3D Renders of the Scarlet and a projected 2012 release date.

But I'm sure it won't be. It would be nice to have the prices go down a little, but it's a sweet deal as it is to be fair.

Perhaps they'll announce all the various Scarlet packages...I'd love to see an interchangeable package similar to the Fixed Scarlet.

I'm really on the fence between the Interchangeable and the Fixed...

 

[David Rasberry]

i wont mention the competition here out of respect for RED


really its a fixed lens .. a lot of people feel the dof is a big part of cinema and that the fixed will be more of a documentary camera


on a positive note im really hoping they give us built in time lapse with scarlet ..

timelapse + hdr = very interesting

If the fixed lens is on par with the other RED lenses for quality, has fully electronic fly by wire controls, touch focus tracking, programmable repeatable focus stops, and other state of the art features, the fact that it is a fixed lens won't matter. A similar aftermarket lens setup for an interchangeable lens camera would cost several times more than the Scarlet. Think of it as a top quality precision robotic lens with a free digital cinema camera attached.
People have too much of a prosumer video mindset regarding this camera. And 2/3" is capable of very flexible range DOF control when handled properly.

The way I see it the sub $10k prosumer camera market will break down into four general categories by the end of the year.

One pretty decent high quality HD video camera line that is the minimum level acceptable for broadcast by most networks. The Sony EX series

Several pretty good quality general purpose 1/3" and 1/4" HD video cameras
that are easy to use with convenient work flows but limited creative cinematic possibilities.

Several DSLR's with large sensor creative possibilities, good low light sensitivity and the ultra shallow dof look that some people are obsessed with, but hobbled with bottom of the barrel sub par HD video quality, poor ergonomics and features for motion work, and severely limited shooting styles if one wants decent results.

One DSLR camera adapted to a camcorder format that should be a definite step up but still only shooting HD at an unknown level of quality.

And one practical high resolution high quality camera shooting native digital cinema wide screen format with a broad range of useful capabilities and features adaptable to just about any shooting style or situation.

 

[Rick Burnett]

Haha, that would be crazy!

 

[Rick Burnett]

Unless you own 16mm glass, I personally don't understand why someone would want to invest in the 2/3 Cinema. Don't get me wrong, there are A LOT of people who have that glass, but the cost difference makes me want to just get the S35 which I could use lenses that would transfer over to the EPIC if I ever start making that much off my work

 

[Tom.Wong]

Unless you own 16mm glass, I personally don't understand why someone would want to invest in the 2/3 Cinema. Don't get me wrong, there are A LOT of people who have that glass, but the cost difference makes me want to just get the S35 which I could use lenses that would transfer over to the EPIC if I ever start making that much off my work

ENG use Rick, S35 depth of field can be WAY too much for certain situations, you get get into focus a lot faster even wide open compared to S35. Think of trying to get that 2 second footage of a celebrity for a event piece but you missed your one and only chance because you were rack focusing. Or out in the rain forest for the discovery channel shooting planet earth 2.0. and you have mere moments to get that frog leaping out that does it once every 6 months, and you're stuck trying to get focus!

2/3 has it's place, and is probably here to stay for a good long while.

 

[David Rasberry]

Unless you own 16mm glass, I personally don't understand why someone would want to invest in the 2/3 Cinema. Don't get me wrong, there are A LOT of people who have that glass, but the cost difference makes me want to just get the S35 which I could use lenses that would transfer over to the EPIC if I ever start making that much off my work

Scarlet S35 will not work out to be a sub $10k camera system with even the most minimal working configuration and the cheapest still lenses. If one can afford a $15k-20k package it becomes more realistic.
There is nothing at all wrong with 2/3" as a cinematic creative production format. Any number of top quality theatrical features can attest to this. The sheer quantity of high quality production work in all genres and markets done on 2/3" dwarfs any other format currently.

 

[Rick Burnett]

No no, I'm talking 2/3 cinema versus S35, not the 2/3 fixed. I had spent a LONG time debating the 2/3 cinema and 2/3 fixed and for me couldn't see a justification with going with the 2/3 cinema (interchangeable) because the smaller interchangeable lens wouldn't be of much use on other cameras with larger sensors.

I totally understand the use of the 2/3, which is why I want one. I NEED easy deep focus for fight scenes. Doing that with shallow DoF is just TOO difficult.

 

[Jimmy Odom]

No no, I'm talking 2/3 cinema versus S35, not the 2/3 fixed. I had spent a LONG time debating the 2/3 cinema and 2/3 fixed and for me couldn't see a justification with going with the 2/3 cinema (interchangeable) because the smaller interchangeable lens wouldn't be of much use on other cameras with larger sensors.

I totally understand the use of the 2/3, which is why I want one. I NEED easy deep focus for fight scenes. Doing that with shallow DoF is just TOO difficult.

I'm not in exact agreement. My understanding is that the 2/3 Cinema with the Mini's allows for the potential of at least 2 more stops. With that one could get just alittle bit more DOF if need be, but still have the option on stopping down and creating a image thats not to diffiult to hit focus marks.

I think the Fixed with it's T2.8 lens will be AWESOME, but for those who want just alittle bit more light the Cinema is the way to go, of course thats only iof they can't afford the S35.

 

[Justin O'Neill]

I think the Fixed with it's T2.8 lens will be AWESOME, but for those who want just alittle bit more light the Cinema is the way to go, of course thats only iof they can't afford the S35.

The fixed Scarlet lens is actually t2.6.

 

[Rick Burnett]

I'm not in exact agreement. My understanding is that the 2/3 Cinema with the Mini's allows for the potential of at least 2 more stops. With that one could get just alittle bit more DOF if need be, but still have the option on stopping down and creating a image thats not to diffiult to hit focus marks.

I think the Fixed with it's T2.8 lens will be AWESOME, but for those who want just alittle bit more light the Cinema is the way to go, of course thats only iof they can't afford the S35.

That is a good point on the difference in the lens. It's just, overall, since the 2/3 pixels are smaller, the dynamic range will be smaller than the S35 sized Mysterium-X sensors (as told by Jim). How much smaller range was just said as "slightly".

When cost comes into play, definitely, it makes it a harder question. Given I own no lenses that really make sense on the Cinema, there is a huge expense there for me. If I bought the Cinema 2/3 with even just three primes and all the extra parts to make it close to the Fixed, I'd imagine it will be at least $3k more (if not more, I forget the exact price of the primes).

I have A LOT of Canon lenses that I've invested in. They are not perfect and have their own issues, but I know them VERY WELL. For that reason, I want to add the S35 brain in the future (not replace) for $8k with the side CF slot and the Canon mount (hence the price). All things considered, I will not have any cost for additional glass if I want, and I have two brains where I can exploit the benefits of both.

It's like the RED combo meal

But, for people wanting to only invest in one brain, and the S35 being too expensive, like I said, I can totally see that. For me, I am assuming I make money with the Fixed to justify and pay for the S35, and I think that is a VERY GOOD assumption from what I can forecast.

 

[Rick Burnett]

Off-topic, so all my lens are rated on F stop, and most cinema lens are rated in T stop. I understand what the difference is, but on many lens that are rated in F stop, I can never find the actual T stop to compare to cinema lenses.

Because of this, with my lack of use of cinema lens, I really don't know what to expect with a T2.6 lens.

 

[Jimmy Odom]

Off-topic, so all my lens are rated on F stop, and most cinema lens are rated in T stop. I understand what the difference is, but on many lens that are rated in F stop, I can never find the actual T stop to compare to cinema lenses.

Because of this, with my lack of use of cinema lens, I really don't know what to expect with a T2.6 lens.

From what I can glean from the forums the T and F's are the exact same measurment. It's just a matter of professional word choice vs non ASC reference.

Kinda like saying tomato or tamato.