Scarlet update in mid-May

[Andrew Rieger]

if only we had some updates I'm sure the results would be different. We are impatient bastards!

Seriously, this place is a dead zone. Red team, please give us something! The wait is seriously killing us. I have been talking up the Scarlet on other forums and all the DSLR users keep laughing saying stuff like "We will be experiencing a 4D trend before we ever see the Scarlet!". Back in 2009, there was some teaser footage from the 2/3" of a lizard. Why nothing since? I know Jim wants the gear to be perfect before he lets that cat out of the bag but something is better than nothing, even if it is not 100% production ready. I understand that Red is Epic focused at the moment, but the higher end users have their One's, and MX's. Please give something to those betting on the lower end gear. Not everyone can afford the Epic. If red markets right, they will make more money off of the Scarlet system than the Epic and Red One combined. DSLR's are infiltrating film sets, taking over music videos and showing up in TV shows. The Scarlet can seriously put a dent in their growing use but people need to be ensured that the product is actually in sight, not some rapid prototype mock up in a display case. Nothing stirs up interests like some footage. The Scarlet needs a video like Laforet's Reverie to get the bloggers and forum readers frothing at the mouth. I really hope Red releases some solid info soon. We know the projected specs, we want to see what the cams can do!

 

[Joseph Hutson]

Seriously, this place is a dead zone. Red team, please give us something! The wait is seriously killing us. I have been talking up the Scarlet on other forums and all the DSLR users keep laughing saying stuff like "We will be experiencing a 4D trend before we ever see the Scarlet!". Back in 2009, there was some teaser footage from the 2/3" of a lizard. Why nothing since? I know Jim wants the gear to be perfect before he lets that cat out of the bag but something is better than nothing, even if it is not 100% production ready. I understand that Red is Epic focused at the moment, but the higher end users have their One's, and MX's. Please give something to those betting on the lower end gear. Not everyone can afford the Epic. If red markets right, they will make more money off of the Scarlet system than the Epic and Red One combined. DSLR's are infiltrating film sets, taking over music videos and showing up in TV shows. The Scarlet can seriously put a dent in their growing use but people need to be ensured that the product is actually in sight, not some rapid prototype mock up in a display case. Nothing stirs up interests like some footage. The Scarlet needs a video like Laforet's Reverie to get the bloggers and forum readers frothing at the mouth. I really hope Red releases some solid info soon. We know the projected specs, we want to see what the cams can do!

First of all, I think the bloggers have all heard the specs and know RED is attempting to do something great. If RED were to release footage before they were ready, people wouldn't be happy.

It's the first impression that is really important. I think RED already anticipates the Scarlet to be their biggest thing...more than the EPIC and the RED One. They also know that due to the anticipation, EVERYTHING has to be perfect or those bloggers and your DSLR friends will start asking you "And this is what you've been waiting two years for?" just before their laughs.

For those of you that can't quite comprehend the complexity of what we are trying to do... consider that there are 70 boards and 11,000 pieces on an EPIC-X (with modules).

Just food for thought while you are waiting...

Jim

The complexity of the DSMC is much more of a behemoth than first thought of, back in 2008 while they were still in their early developmental stages.

Also, I believe due to the economy, it was said that RED had some difficulties with the companies they were working with, which caused them to have to slow down a bit and find new vendors.

I still say that Jim wants these cameras out more than we do, and when they can get us news, they give it to us...sometimes prematurely, according to their critics. That's how much they want us to be in the loop.

 

[Andrew Rieger]

If RED were to release footage before they were ready, people wouldn't be happy.

The test footage from six or seven months ago looked stellar, better than anything coming from the DSLR's at the time. I'm sure it looks even better now. Red had test footage months before the One was released, same for the MX and Epic. The Scarlet is supposed to be released late this summer yet we still have not seen anything from the cameras.

It's the first impression that is really important. I think RED already anticipates the Scarlet to be their biggest thing...more than the EPIC and the RED One. They also know that due to the anticipation, EVERYTHING has to be perfect or those bloggers and your DSLR friends will start asking you "And this is what you've been waiting two years for?" just before their laughs.

They want to believe in Red. They are not critical of the product but the time it has taken to find out anything about it. They will be very enthusiastic about the Scarlet. They are DSLR users so they are not that picky about footage quality to begin with. Teaser footage of any kind will be vastly better than the Canon's and the bloggers and forum readers will recognize that.

The complexity of the DSMC is much more of a behemoth than first thought of, back in 2008 while they were still in their early developmental stages.

Also, I believe due to the economy, it was said that RED had some difficulties with the companies they were working with, which caused them to have to slow down a bit and find new vendors.

I still say that Jim wants these cameras out more than we do, and when they can get us news, they give it to us...sometimes prematurely, according to their critics. That's how much they want us to be in the loop.

I'm not asking for the final product, just some test footage so we can get an idea what to expect from the 2/3" chip. At this point, Red has finalized the design and will not be able to make any significant improvements to the footage. Sure little tweaks are possible like more sensitivity and DR but fundamentally, the prototypes will show us what we will get from the camera. I understand that developing a product is a long process but if they had working prototypes and test footage several months ago, we should be seeing some updated test footage by now unless they were major major major setbacks. I guess I am just getting antsy. I check this site more than my facebook and I really wish one of these days, there was some news to get really excited about.

 

[Joel Arvidsson]

Boy is this exiting times! I wonder whats going to be in the update. I'll bet its to early for hoping for the final delivery schedule. But you can always dream, can't you? So hopefully some framegrabs from the fixed. Anyway I hope we get the missing peaces to get the info out soon.

Jarred since the monitor is a touch screen can I control the menus from there or always from redmote? Would be cool if you could touch and hold youre finger on the iso number on the screen, and a droplist would show up with a list of iso alternatives to choose from.

I would love to se a video of the touchscreen with touch focus (when its ready).

Mean while I wait patiencely

 

[Subhadip Sen]

I think the only mistake Red made was announcing Scarlet too early. That's not how we expect the industry to work. We expect the manufacturers to be completely detached from the customers, and keep everything confidential. Panasonic, for example, must have had their 4/3" camcorder in development for years. They only went out and announced it once they had a good idea of where it was headed. So, we expect these companies to release their products within a few months of announcement.

Red is different. There's no company out there in this industry that is as open as frank with their customers as Red is. If Scarlet were a Sony product, you wouldn't hear about it till, say, Nov 30th 2009, even if the product had been in development since 2007.

The whole idea is that we have to appreciate Red's policy - they will tell us exactly where they are in the process, but we have to realize that those information are only "as things stand now" and majorly liable to change. Other companies simply don't publish these interim details.

The biggest mistake of all is publishing dates, as that forces even greater expectations. I am sure this is something Red has realized, and we are unlikely to see any more date estimates unless we are at a late stage in development and everything is finalized.

I don't blame Red at all, they have done a stellar, almost extraordinary job for the industry. I am sure they are doing their very best. These delays are most normal and completely beyond their control, but perhaps, in the future, they should not advertise loose estimates. I don't mind, as I understand the frank communication with customers policy, but many are used to the way things are normally done.

 

[Joseph Hutson]

Jarred since the monitor is a touch screen can I control the menus from there or always from redmote? Would be cool if you could touch and hold youre finger on the iso number on the screen, and a droplist would show up with a list of iso alternatives to choose from.

I would love to se a video of the touchscreen with touch focus (when its ready).

Mean while I wait patiencely

Too bad video was strictly forbidden at RED Day (the video I DID get was only by special special permission). I watched Jim working the touchscreen...pretty cool stuff.

 

[Joseph Hutson]

I think the only mistake Red made was announcing Scarlet too early. That's not how we expect the industry to work. We expect the manufacturers to be completely detached from the customers, and keep everything confidential. Panasonic, for example, must have had their 4/3" camcorder in development for years. They only went out and announced it once they had a good idea of where it was headed. So, we expect these companies to release their products within a few months of announcement.

Red is different. There's no company out there in this industry that is as open as frank with their customers as Red is. If Scarlet were a Sony product, you wouldn't hear about it till, say, Nov 30th 2009, even if the product had been in development since 2007.

The whole idea is that we have to appreciate Red's policy - they will tell us exactly where they are in the process, but we have to realize that those information are only "as things stand now" and majorly liable to change. Other companies simply don't publish these interim details.

The biggest mistake of all is publishing dates, as that forces even greater expectations. I am sure this is something Red has realized, and we are unlikely to see any more date estimates unless we are at a late stage in development and everything is finalized.

I don't blame Red at all, they have done a stellar, almost extraordinary job for the industry. I am sure they are doing their very best. These delays are most normal and completely beyond their control, but perhaps, in the future, they should not advertise loose estimates. I don't mind, as I understand the frank communication with customers policy, but many are used to the way things are normally done.

hehe. The thing is, if RED wasn't doing things different, we would probably already have our Scarlet, but not the way we will be getting it now. After NAB 2008, we got to have an open conversation about what we wanted. We got to talk to Jim and the rest of the developing team about important things like

• If we are to insure a fully modular and upgradeable system, do we upgrade the body by sending it into RED, or do we have to buy a whole new setup if/when we work with an EPIC?
• What about when you release a Scarlet with a larger sensor size?
• Do we send the body back into RED to upgrade?The Scarlet program will have to become obsolete because you probably can't fit the larger sensor in a body that is going to be as compact and light as possible.

However inconvenient these questions might have been, they were important questions that were needed to be met head on. RED took the challenge, kept listening, and adapted to bring the idea to fruition.

So, in summary, yes RED is different. Some see it as a demise to their success (I'm not saying you do), but for those who have a true understanding of their company, they realize that it is vital and is what makes RED a truly unique/cool company.

Good things come to those who wait...

 

[Subhadip Sen]

Yes, RED is different, RED is daring, RED is unique, and with everything that is new and unique, there will always be a heavy share of criticism. Human beings are inherently prone to be skeptical and resist change. (Ok, this is much debatable...)

I still feel RED should avoid posting rough estimates on anything. I think it is more than anyone would expect that Jim and Co. keep us updated - no need to go into specific numbers that will create tangible expectations, and lead to disappointments/criticism.

Something like "3K for $3K" and then, "Summer 2009", these are only estimates that are likely to change. No matter how many disclaimers there are saying "Subject to change", people will still be disappointed when the targets are not met. Rather, keeping us updated about concrete details is just fine with me. Also, if originally RED had advertised "3K for $5K in 2011", people would be applauding RED for beating all expectations.

 

[Andrew Rieger]

However inconvenient these questions might have been, they were important questions that were needed to be met head on. RED took the challenge, kept listening, and adapted to bring the idea to fruition.

So, in summary, yes RED is different. Some see it as a demise to their success (I'm not saying you do), but for those who have a true understanding of their company, they realize that it is vital and is what makes RED a truly unique/cool company.

Good things come to those who wait...

But how long do we need to wait just to see some footage from the chip? I am not asking for the product to be released tomorrow, they can release it two summers from now if they want. I just wish Red would throw the Scarlet fans a bone. I understand that everything is Epic centric at the moment but Red has already won the hearts of the high end users, they do not need to convince them to buy the Epic. They do need to convince the thousands of Canon users that they need to upgrade to the Scarlet. They need to convince the masses that the 2/3" provides enough shallow DOF potential and that RAW is the way to go. The Scarlet will be Red's breadwinner and they need to put more focus on that. If Red is really as far along in the Scarlet's development as they say they are, then we really should know more by now. Just a tease is all we are asking for, not updated potential specs, prototype designs in display cases, but some real concrete info.

 

[Dean Harrington]

Red will announce ... when they announce. Patience is a good thing and as others have said ... better to have it together than arrive too early!

 

[Nik Skjøth]

I guess that Jims (well deserved) RnR (due to health) put a dent on the may announcement.. Well I can live with that..

There is infact only one thing which scares me more than anything else. I wonder if there is a plan set in place IF the unthinkable should happend and Jim should die for whatever reason :emote_22_yikes: Then what? Would that be the end of red?

Other manufactures are corporations with a board of people making the whole train on the tracks. With red.. There is Jim.. He is red!

This is a really scarry thought.

 

[NEIL ANDREW BATES]

I think Death would rather take its chances with Chuck Norris wielding nun-chuks than Jim Jannard wielding a nearly finished scarlet

 

[Sven Seynaeve]

You guys are just getting way to rude and impolite .

 

[Andrew Rieger]

Red will announce ... when they announce. Patience is a good thing and as others have said ... better to have it together than arrive too early!

Real names forum, just FYI.

 

[David Rasberry]

As Jarred said they are waiting on a few items they need to complete the update announcement. might be final manufacturing costs for pricing or it might be some tests to finalize specs or perhaps hopefully some demo shots.

Red has matured a good bit as a company. They have teams of people from R&D to manufacturing, sales and support to management. I am sure they can run just fine in Jim's absence.

 

[Stas Dimos]

Where should we look to see this update? Where are they gonna post it?

 

[Andrew Rieger]

Where should we look to see this update? Where are they gonna post it?

in the recon section

 

[Emanuel A.]

RED is a team, a lot more than only 1 person. Last but not least, we the customers are also part of this company.

 

[Rogelio Salinas]

Technically, Mid-May runs from May 11th-May21st so hopefully we'll hear some news by then. There are so many thoughts, complaints, and other opinions about the delay of Scarlet, but it will be released when it's released and there is very little that can change that. I have nothing but respect for RED for giving us the opportunity to eventually get our hands on something that shoots better than a $250K Genesis for less than $5K, but after Scarlet being announced a few years ago as an alternative to those of us who were unable to afford a RED One and all its accessories, the wait has been tough. Either way, once Scarlet is released it will change the face of independent filmmaking the same way Epic is going to change the face of major studio productions. There are a few productions we have waiting for Scarlet that we were going to shoot with other HD cams, but 120fps in 3K is going to look amazing and that is what will enhance the overall production value of some of our projects. My wife convinced me that if a project means that much to me, why not shoot it with the camera that is going to make it look its best, and that was enough confirmation for me.

 

[James Stone]

Will there be a policy of preference for red1 owners vs non red owners to place an order

If there is such preference how long before a non redowner can place his order (months?)

What might be the capacity of delivery per day by the R1 for Scarlet

Can they / will they be prepared to fulfill all the orders or will there be a limitation per day

Will there be immediate delivery of Scarlet, or will they take days to start the process

If there is one time full payment, not just a deposit, will there be preference
---since these are not customized cameras and are just off the shelf, is there a need to have a deposit policy--- why not just take the full payment and dispatch the product directly. (because to my understanding deposits mean a guaranteed order to be fulfiled is ready and then the assembling starts)

How many might place order on the 1st day, 1st week, 1st month.

Will R1 want its preferred customers to use the Scarlet for some time (months), reap its benefits and then get it released to the general public

I think Scarlet will definitely be released by the end of this month and maybe and hopefully Jim's health issue is just to get some breathing space to be able to release it just a few days after the "deadline".

Maybe the price of Scarlet will be just over 5K.

Speculations, Speculations, Speculations, Speculations...