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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet Rental rates?

+1 on that, Eric J

I think I am going to put mine up for $500 - $700 / day for the kit (which is everything but Cine Lenses or matte box). The range being dependent on the size of the project. SO a well funded feature start out at $700, a small doc about a charity starts smaller. 3 day weeks and monthly discounts, of course.
 
Jeffrey T. Morgan said:
+1 on that, Eric J

I think I am going to put mine up for $500 - $700 / day for the kit (which is everything but Cine Lenses or matte box). The range being dependent on the size of the project. SO a well funded feature start out at $700, a small doc about a charity starts smaller. 3 day weeks and monthly discounts, of course.
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Good call.
 
I come from a very indie community that is super creative but has troubles raising funds....population 80,000. we sit between seattle and vancouver b.c. I'll probably be renting out my kit, allbeit, not a full kit, still need more batts and ssd, but im gonna say camera with operator and whatever canon lenses we have for around 400-500 a day. they handle post unless they want us to do it. there is only one other RED in our community so itll give people some options.
 
Price will go down as the market saturates--
increase with new modules--
decrease when Alexa 5K sensor makes 1080 Alexa more affordable--
increase with a sensor upgrade... etc etc...

As owners, rental rates ought to be the least of our concerns. If we all spent our time shooting more passion projects, showing the world the creative possibilities of this small camera instead of focusing on "paying off" gear, we'd establish the Scarlet as the camera that makes breathtaking new media.

If we all tend to undersell our gear to get work, we'll work with less post-production support, creating more cheap spots and fewer creative works, defining "filmmaking" (and Red) a little differently than we otherwise might have.

As far as operator, DIT, camera tech what have you, let's try not to sell ourselves at the price of our gear. Friends and fun projects is one thing, a stranger's informercial is another.
 
i just want to promote healthy filmmaking in our region that is slightly off the map. There are tons of filmmakers here who want the chance to work with RED and I have no problem helping them out. Id rather be making a little money on the side and paying off my gear than working a night job in a kitchen somewhere. everyone wins that way :) and if we have good deals, we can get more quantity which will be just fine. Viva Filmmaking.
 
Domenic, working with good people on good projects is awesome. Renting out your gear at a low price in a small community is awesome. It's us in New York, LA etc that have the potential to muck up by prioritizing rental rates above creative final product.

Personally I think you have a much cooler situation, being one of two Red cameras in town. Meanwhile we're all looking over our backs when we get to thinking we have to "pay the camera off" before time runs out. I know I've spent too much time thinking about returns.

The money discussion should remind us why we bought these cameras in the first place... it wasn't to make money.
 
yea its def a diff situation here where im from. I totally understand the L.A., N.Y. situation. Hundreds must have went to each city. i can only imagine what has to be done in order for someone to choose which house to rent from. in the end, i hope it works for everyone and whoever has one can produce wonderful things with it.
 
Ryan De Fanco said:
Price will go down as the market saturates--
increase with new modules--
decrease when Alexa 5K sensor makes 1080 Alexa more affordable--
increase with a sensor upgrade... etc etc...

As owners, rental rates ought to be the least of our concerns. If we all spent our time shooting more passion projects, showing the world the creative possibilities of this small camera instead of focusing on "paying off" gear, we'd establish the Scarlet as the camera that makes breathtaking new media.

If we all tend to undersell our gear to get work, we'll work with less post-production support, creating more cheap spots and fewer creative works, defining "filmmaking" (and Red) a little differently than we otherwise might have.

As far as operator, DIT, camera tech what have you, let's try not to sell ourselves at the price of our gear. Friends and fun projects is one thing, a stranger's informercial is another.
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I shot a very low key sales meeting for a small but popular Pharmaceutical company today in Philadelphia. I have been handling both photo and freelance video projects for the last 2 years here and there. My day rate to travel to Philly and shoot (using Canon DSLR gear and a few strobes setup) was $950 for about 3 hours. I charged 1/2 day rate + travel. This is not a problem for any large company and I have 2 more shoots this week. If they go for an agency over me, they pay 3 times that much gladly.

I reduce that rate for the agencies direct because they book the jobs, but if you are pricing yourself at $400 with the equipment (scarlet or other) you are doing so many other things wrong to get business. You are better off being pro active and focusing on building professional relationships and referrals over working that low.

These companies hire me and other talent over tons of low priced as they respect the rates as professional. It is perception of low rates that comes with perception of low quality. I know it is scary for the newbies and you will loose a few jobs, but there is truth that people are afraid to hire the lowest price especially if they have more to spend. Pricing the Scarlet too low and then jumping in on the shoot is cool for personal projects and your right to do, but will probably not yield the professional referrals you are hoping for as anyone with that low of a budget will probably not have the resources to further your future.

Professionals hire professionals. If you are not getting the types of jobs you want and have to work for low costs, you are not typically working with the right people, talking to the right businesses, etc which will help you build the relationships you need to get paid the right fees. My advice is to put together a kit and your reel (a few small projects is all it takes) and call and set appointments for ad agencies and communications/marketing departments at big businesses. Talk to whoever you can.

Overall we can all professionally make our own decisions about pricing ourselves and gear, just my two cents.
 
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oh i was referring to just letting the camera get rented vs sending it out with someone who knows how to operate, not do the whole shoot, its just a small part. I personally shoot music videos, commercials, promo and web content, and we dont touch anything as a company for less than 1500. our community isnt super wealthy and landing large jobs doesnt happen too often. usually we shoot for places like seattle and vancouver. however, we have a bustling filmmaker community that i personally want to help. if they want RED, i choose to help them and give them a great deal. its not about being professional, its about being a great person in the community that other filmmakers will want to work with. If they want to pay me a dayrate on top of the rental to direct, produce, dp, light etc, then that can all be discussed. we just like to help, there isnt a whole lot of resources here like in other parts of the country and world.
 
Domenic Barbero said:
i just want to promote healthy filmmaking in our region that is slightly off the map. There are tons of filmmakers here who want the chance to work with RED and I have no problem helping them out. Id rather be making a little money on the side and paying off my gear than working a night job in a kitchen somewhere. everyone wins that way :) and if we have good deals, we can get more quantity which will be just fine. Viva Filmmaking.
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You are absolutely correct; it is your gear. These cameras have the potential to draw lots of real producers, agencies in to hire you too. While your taking the smaller projects and making the money, make your connections to the people that will matter in getting you real jobs though too. My experience has been building the relationships and presenting a nice web presence, portfolio reel and availability goes a long way for future referrals.
 
totally agree, my local pricing is far different than my metro areas. I just know my region and if i price to high for the area i get no money back, which is a shame. and usually that low of a price is for little personal projects for locals around town. i would price differently for someone doing a pro job with a decent budget. guess it really depends. guess i should have also stated that from the beginning. lol i would say tho that anywhere from 400-700 a day would be all i could get for the package i bought.
 
It all depends on the client and the market you are in. I really don't believe the high price equals high quality equation. Most of my new clients are leaving high cost production companies to work with me because of word of mouth that I can do the same quality work at a lower cost and more personal one-on-one attention. I'm a hard worker, I charge a rate that I think is fair and I make a decent living. Clients are not dumb and in the current economic environment marketing teams do not want to pay through the nose for a product. I think Domenic's idea of building relationships and a name for himself within his community is a good path to be on.
 
thanks Curt, we've got our name pretty well integrated into the community,so this is just our way to help out the little people. :) everyone deserves a good RED shoot once in a while. I remember my first one. 900 bucks for a dayrate on a RED one. I paid it, it was worth it, and since then have tried to get as much RED work as possible. Its a great tool.
 
Curt Schulz said:
It all depends on the client and the market you are in. I really don't believe the high price equals high quality equation. Most of my new clients are leaving high cost production companies to work with me because of word of mouth that I can do the same quality work at a lower cost and more personal one-on-one attention. I'm a hard worker, I charge a rate that I think is fair and I make a decent living. Clients are not dumb and in the current economic environment marketing teams do not want to pay through the nose for a product. I think Domenic's idea of building relationships and a name for himself within his community is a good path to be on.
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I guess I wasn't making the claim that high quality comes only with high cost, but that with large professional firms which provide consistent business, I can say for sure, individuals not pricing competitively in the middle, (not to low or high) get the jobs. It is possible that some want to hire and save money, but to give an example of personal experience, I know a friend who runs a production company. She recently did a commercial for $750 including the editing. This commercial went on the air and looked good, like a much higher end commercial even. It was great. She was excited and put the hours together for pre-production, production and post and it was a joke. I see this all the time.

She thought she was now going to start doing commercials for anyone and kept her rates similar. The effort it took and the time it took to do a commercial for $750 is ridiculous. So basically she is busy; busy enough to make 20,000 last year only. Big deal. She is to overwhelmed to get higher clients as she is to busy doing small jobs with locals that don't' seem to want to pay her anymore and is locked in a small market which will soon fade more and is already fading. She has to do 90% of the work herself as she can't afford to pay anyone serious or good as there is no room for that. On her sets it looks amateur for this reason too. This is a true story and unfortunate. I made more doing 3 jobs last year (i'm not bragging, just saying) because of my contacts.

I have seen it all and done it all talking about low budget productions and can honestly say that offering to help on certain projects with the right people is a good thing and honorable and sometimes necessary, and building your relationship at the same time as building your rates is good too, but based on your logic, some young high school kids with HD cams will undercut you tomorrow and you'll be in the same boat. This is a professional medium and while we shouldn't overcharge and take advantage, it is your time and should be priced right for the time on set and off, for equipment and gear, etc. I see so many filmmakers and really videographers taking low paying jobs all the time and spending way to many hours on those projects for the rates. Ultimately their choice, but I choose to do something better and that is price fairly for the project and the work and time and equipment. Time is money.

BTW this isn't an argument for anyone, just giving some advice on what I have seen and my current personal production situation. I see so many firms paying very well and while they would love to save money, most can't seem to find the same results as quality comes with a price, but that price doesn't have to be ridiculous, just fair for the client and the producer.
 
everyones opinion matters, thats the beauty of life and learning from others. i love hearing everyones takes on stuff. Thanks eric for the input.
 
Domenic Barbero said:
everyones opinion matters, thats the beauty of life and learning from others. i love hearing everyones takes on stuff. Thanks eric for the input.
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No problem, I respect your statements as well and am really just trying to help with info not to judge. I don't know if this helps anyone, but I'll quickly tell how I've been able to succeed a little more in production lately. I reached out to a few Advertising agencies. I came across two who used me on a few projects. I continue to work for them monthly on something or other. In addition I called about 30 professional companies and sent reels to their internal marketing departments. Commercial and nonprofit reels.

A few pharmaceutical companies actually reached out and slowly added me to their lists. It takes patience; kind of like waiting for Scarlet to ship :) I poked around for their average rates and beat it by only a hundred or two (as one of the insiders told me they don't go for the lowest based on perception of low quality). I consistently work for them now for a lot of internal publications, company interviews, and even head shots. It helps I do both photo and video and complete setups for both too. I highly recommend this path but only if you are good at both.

It was very surprising to find that there is a lot of business out there and while the economy sucks big time for small and large businesses making commercials right now, there seems to be big business in the private commercial sector and most have all kinds of projects they roll out weekly like company intranet videos, brochures (if you do design too), legal videos, non-profit videos, etc, etc. Once you find your niche or work between several, there are a lot of opportunities to make real money in production.

I have a studio which handles about 50 - 60 events a year which range from social events to weddings. You are free to checkout my event site at www.theartistgroup.com I don't handle as much in weddings myself anymore as I try to focus on professional projects, my design of film gear and film productions themselves, but this is a great place to start for many; probably not the Scarlet/EPIC crowd, but with other gear building up for your professional resume. It is not a bad thing to schedule a wedding for $6500 + for one day of production and one day of post either. I just don't tell my professional clients I also shoot weddings. For some reason it is a weird perception you are not as professional :)






I think
 
i would rather shoot anything over a wedding. for some reason, its never fun. i think its the lack of control and always guessing the level of coordination between the client and I. lol
 
I respect Eric for supplying it all for a little less to the big corporate clients

I respect Domenic for giving back to the local community while actively competing in urban markets

More than anyone I want to balance both of these approaches and eventually travel with the Scarlet, filming nonprofits doing good work around the world because commercial jobs pay for the plane tickets. There's work and money anywhere but dying knowing you brought awareness to the world in your spare time is worth shooting weddings to pay for :)
 
Domenic Barbero said:
i would rather shoot anything over a wedding. for some reason, its never fun. i think its the lack of control and always guessing the level of coordination between the client and I. lol
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Yeah, I feel you. It takes a lot of practice, but it is honestly a great source of income and after a while low paid production work turns into work too; when fun projects stop becoming fun. Weddings paid for two homes, and a lot of my gear I use professionally, but the key is for me to have it as a business with a few great select photographers I manage. It wears you out if you do it all yourself and don't price right. I have been very fortunate to work and be referred with some of the best. It sounds funny saying it, but we are definitely in an exclusive list for weddings with higher rates. The last contracted job I signed myself onto was for $8900 for photography only. It is a destination shoot to FL. I would have done that one for free.

But I went to film school for a reason and it wasn't to shoot weddings, or honestly even do commercial work, which is why I focus myself lately on filmmaking and manufacturing film gear. It just took a lot of time to get here.

Seriously though, events etc can be a great source of income for newcomers who really want to make some extra cash and be in control of their situation and equipment. It is very like managing your own production if you get the right clients and they respect you.
 
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