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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet owners (or even RED!): phantom power available?

Arnold F. said:
In my experience, run and gun means a fast and/or frequently moving shoot. I have never known it to mean there is no sound guy unless it was a silent film or just b-roll.

Sorry, let me amend that. You can indeed capture dialogue with a camera-mounted mic and it will be EXACTLY as useable as the footage captured from a little video camera mounted to the audio recorder. It seems camera guys are always recommending Rode mics which Production Mixers, the folks who know about film/tv sound, NEVER use. Imagine going to a sound guy forum and the video camera they're all recommending to each other is made by Radio Shack and you'll get the idea.

I am so excited to get my Scarlet (assuming it ever comes). Thankfully, I will not have to worry if it has phantom power for the Production Mixer, or a little mirror for the MUA, or coffe maker for craft services, or anything else that is the responsibility of other people on my shoot. As the DP, I would NEVER start recording audio without the Mixer's okay. It's incredibly poor form.

That said, can I use the Scarlet as a hammer? :)
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Hi Arnold,

Certainly in your sphere of filmmaking the duties of sound and image are handled by separate teams or people, which is standard for many or most productions. And yeah those Rode Mics are total jank. But there are a lot of us who do very high end work in the field of documentary, for example, where having more than two people in a room can be a hindrance to the intimacy of capturing a real life situation; it just depends on the situation. In those cases a great option is to use a high end shotgun microphone on the camera and stay close to your subject as per doc-verite, which provides fantastic sound in certain situations if you know what you're doing and what the limitations are. I guess I'm just pointing this out because this kind of approach has its place for storytelling reasons, which is why I'm asking about whether phantom power works or not, and perhaps why this thread started. Although this kind of run-and-gun shooting may seem totally unprofessional to some, it's not to others. I didn't think that was what you were insinuating, but it bears pointing out given the more typical professional scenario you described above, which I totally agree with you on.

But I did check around on the forum here for you and if you use your Scarlet as a hammer it will pound a nail pretty good. But I think I remember reading somewhere that it may void your warranty on the phantom power supply, so be careful!

:-)
 
Those Rode mics would actually be great for shooting music videos, too.

It's nice to have a reference on sound, even if slated properly.
 
Arnold F. said:
You can indeed capture dialogue with a camera-mounted mic and it will be EXACTLY as useable as the footage captured from a little video camera mounted to the audio recorder. It seems camera guys are always recommending Rode mics which Production Mixers, the folks who know about film/tv sound, NEVER use.
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Well technically, if you have a nice mic mounted on-camera, and the levels are good and you're a couple feet away from the subject, your on-camera sound will be just as good as if you had a separate sound guy. I think people generally recommend stuff that works for them, which is useful. Just because the big-crew film/TV guys wouldn't do something, doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

Arnold F. said:
As the DP, I would NEVER start recording audio without the Mixer's okay. It's incredibly poor form.
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I don't understand that. If you're shooting double-system, why on earth would you not demand on-camera audio that's as good as possible? It's a safety net in case your sound guy or his equipment fucks up, and it makes everything so much easier in post when you can hear what people are saying in the raw clips.
 
...ok so the definitive answer....Phantom power is not enabled on the Scarlet-X, that's cool, BUT can anyone confirm that you can indeed record sound using a battery powered shotgun mic, utilizing the 3.5 jack on the front of the Scarlet? And....would it need to be a stereo or mono plug on the mic?

Cheers team!
 
Is it currently possible to easily set the microphone levels on the camera with any of the 3 devices you'd access to control the camera? This means either the REDMOTE, the SIDEHANDLE, or the LCD. Since a lot of these items are on backorder or some people have chosen different configurations, it's important to know which of these items can control audio levels and which ones can't.

Sorry if I missed something somewhere buried in here but according to the posts on the forum it looks like the only way you can actually set levels is with the LCD for certain and *maybe* the REDMOTE.

Deanan, is it possible to get a confirmation as to which camera menu control devices can access and physically change audio levels on the camera?

Thanks!
 
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When phantom power will be enabled, will we able to power XLR microphones though a adapter cable or the A-Box from wooden camera ?
I feel not confident 3.5' can do anything else than just transport audio stream.

Or 3.5 balanced means that power also can go through ?
 
There is no difference between the audio and phantom power capability of the mono balanced inputs on Scarlet VS an XLR connection. The connector does not define the signal it passes.

For now a mono balanced microphone with internal battery for phantom power is necessary. The Rode video mics are specifically wired for unbalanced stereo inputs on consumer cameras and will not work properly with Scarlet. The Rode NTG-2 will work with a properly wired balanced cable. It runs off of either phantom power or an internal battery.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/367747-REG/Rode_NTG_2_NTG_2_Battery_or_Phantom.html
 
Thanks for the answer.

Though, as i'm currently using 3 microphones from oktava (only phantom powered), along with my Marantz audio field recorder (and previously with a sony ex1), i'm wondering if i should invest in a hybrid-power microphone like the NTG-2 or an audio technica AT-897, or wait a bit till scarlet gets the phantom power option activated. I like my microphones so if i also can save some money, i'm all for keeping my current equipments.
 
Yannick Verry said:
Thanks for the answer.

Though, as i'm currently using 3 microphones from oktava (only phantom powered), along with my Marantz audio field recorder (and previously with a sony ex1), i'm wondering if i should invest in a hybrid-power microphone like the NTG-2 or an audio technica AT-897, or wait a bit till scarlet gets the phantom power option activated. I like my microphones so if i also can save some money, i'm all for keeping my current equipments.
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Rode makes great stuff, no doubt. I've got the NTG-3 and love it. So the NTG-2 wouldn't be a bad add to your kit. But honestly, if you've got mics you like, I'd consider adding a small mixer (like the SD 302) rather than mics specific to the camera.
 
The sound device 302 looks like to be a great solution, but i just checked and it's totally out of my budget :-(
 
Stephen Mick said:
Honestly, it's worth the money. If you can save up a few bucks here and there, it will serve you well for a long, long time.
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Exactly.

I can't see how people can spend $17k+ on a 4k digital cinema camera and then balk at $1200 on the best field mixer made.
 
Well just that my current audio solution is already about $2500 and worked fine until now, so add an extra 1200$ because scarlet can't power microphones don't seem that reasonable.

Edit : i don't disagree about the idea, it's just a bit early for me to buy "the best solution ever".
Cinema is not the only thing i need to care about, as many of us i hope.
 
That the guys and gals who are responsible for half of the project are thought of as "extra baggage" would explain a lot of the absolutely dismal treatment and ridiculous pay for Production Mixers. If the mixer is "extra baggage" I can't imagine the names for other crew like the MUA or gaffer or AC, who all have a tiny fraction of the mixer's responsibility.

I think run and gun has a different meaning here than I'm used to. I think for some it means a camera tech and no one else. To me it means a fast-paced shooting style, not no sound mixer (aka "extra baggage").

Imagine a sound mixer shooting a project himself and referring to a camera tech as "extra baggage" and one will have the appropriate perspective.

That said, it's clear that there are times when you're shooting on your own and would like at least some kind of ambient sound (not dialogue, which cannot be recorded with an on-camera mic). Its a pity that the Scarlet doesn't have something built in, like so many cameras do. When I get mine I'll probably get a short-cabled lav and clip it on somewhere.

On jobs like interviews where I'm forced to get proper audio, I'll use a Sanken COS-11 plugged into a Lectro LMa sending signal to a Lectro SRa. You can then easily have the appropriate cable made.




Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
Totally not an option; can't afford one, don't need the extra 'baggage', like to work alone, and where would I find a sound guy willing to put on a silver suit and do the crazy stuff I do? 'The subject' being an erupting volcano, up close and personal :D

A final confirmation on Scarlet phantom power working would be welcome, as would be a suggestion for a known reliable XLR -> Scarlet balanced 3.5mm adapter cable. I know and like the A-box and Action Products solutions but the A-box is backordered and I'm looking for something cheap and simple to experiment with first.

EDIT think I found the answer, these have been mentioned elsewhere: http://www.filmtools.com/hosa-xlr3f-to-right-angle-3-5mm-1-xvs-101f.html

attachment.php


Looking at the wiring diagrams and comparing with the EPIC ops guide, that should work fine for balanced input with phantom power, run and gun, no mixer or other device between mic & camera?

Also, any recommendations from personal experience on a good pro custom cable maker who can whip something up fairly quickly? My primary mic is an Audio Technica BP4029, a 48V *stereo* shotgun mic, I might just have someone make a custom 5-pin XLR (XLR5F) stereo -> 2 x 3.5mm balanced Y-cable... I have one made for my RED ONE by Coffey Sound in LA and it works great, might just go back to them.

Thanks again folks!

Mike
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Yannick Verry said:
The sound device 302 looks like to be a great solution, but i just checked and it's totally out of my budget :-(
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Take a look at the http://www.sounddevices.com/products/mixpre-d.htm. It's a good match to the Epic/Scarlet form factor. It is an excellent 2-mic mixer/preamp/limiter, it provides phantom power, and it has line in capability so it can be used with your current mixer if you like for situations where 2 is not enough mics. It's $750, so its a lot more affordable than the bigger field mixers.

I use it with Hosa XVM-102F Angled 3.5mm to 3-Pin XLR, which are properly wired and dirt cheap. Mogami also makes a cable that Jeff Kilgroe says works, but I couldn't find one with an angled 1/8 plug.
 
Arnold F. said:
That the guys and gals who are responsible for half of the project are thought of as "extra baggage" would explain a lot of the absolutely dismal treatment and ridiculous pay for Production Mixers. If the mixer is "extra baggage" I can't imagine the names for other crew like the MUA or gaffer or AC, who all have a tiny fraction of the mixer's responsibility.
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Ye Gods... thanks for taking me *totally* the wrong way. When I say 'baggage' I mean literally. Maybe 'weight' would have been a better word. I don't plan to lug anything up a mountain that I don't *need*. And I'm a geologist & fireman; I'm prepared to take my own risks on a volcano. I won't expose a production mixer, or any other crew member, to those risks.

You got the bit about shooting alone and wanting to record ambient sound right though :D

Mike
 
The reason that I would not demand on-camera audio of any quality is because it's not my department. I have no RIGHT to demand on-camera audio. It's literally none of my business. As DP, it's not my job to make sure there is a backup system for other randomly-chosen departments. Contrary to popular belief, the DP is another employee of the production, not the king of the shoot. The Mixer doesn't get a camera and also shoot in case the DP or his camera fucks up, the MUA doesn't bring a catering truck in case the caterer or her truck fuck up, the Gaffer doesn't bring a printer in case the PM's printer breaks.

I totally agree with you about the utility of an on-camera mic. If the subject is a couple/few feet from camera, always facing camera, and maintaining the same level, it will work as long as those conditions are maintained. It's exactly as useful as having your ONLY light mounted on top of the camera. How many here would say that's ideal?

None of this has to do with what the "big-crew film/TV guys" do or don't do, at least not directly. The reason you don't shoot with audio represented by a single mic or a single light mounted on the camera is because it doesn't work. That's why they don't do it either. I'm on ENG shoots all the time and the company I work for would never get hired again if we told them a camera-mounted mic would be sufficient for their television show.

All that said, I have always believed in audio redundancy and when audio has been my responsibility, I have always recommended recording to a proper audio recorder and to camera as well. The camera audio is there in the rare instances that there is a problem with the primary recording device (which records better audio than the camera). It's basically just insurance because I can remember no instance when that happened.


 
Phantom power is enabled and works perfectly on my scarlet, I use a RODE shotgun as a scratch track and it's great, very easy to sync in post. I've tried multiple phantom powered mics and they all work great so far :)
 
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