Scarlet mixing with 5d?

[greg filipkowski]

What you guy think? quick test I did, I think they work well together, one was 24 L the other was 85
http://vimeo.com/38036726

 

[Nick Morrison]

Hate to ask, but which is which. On Vimeo it can be hard to tell if the cams aren't pushed too much.

 

[Lorenzo Straight]

Yeah, can't tell.

 

[greg filipkowski]

1st red 2nd is 5d

 

[Brian Iannone]

With the amount of compression Vimeo applies, it would be difficult to tell the difference between F65 and T3i footage.

 

[James Fleming]

The colours are identical. Well done. Any tips on how you matched them Greg? Did you shoot in Cinestyle picture profile on the 5D and grade in Resolve?

 

[Paramon Ivanovich]

now tell me Mr Filipkowski,
if I don't shoot for big screen, why dio i need RED?

 

[A. Clint Litton]

now tell me Mr Filipkowski,
if I don't shoot for big screen, why dio i need RED?

So you can see a sharp image on the monitor after you press record, hopefully well enough to keep specific points of the frame in focus as desired...

 

[Alonzo Von Threet]

The second one looks a lot better than the first. There's so much more detail in the hair. However that kind of detail is what I typically see in most Scarlet shots, even mine.

 

[Roy Gregorio]

Second one looked better. Would be cool to see identical shots at similar distance/settings. Or ungraded footage of each? Maybe just some stills?

now tell me Mr Filipkowski,
if I don't shoot for big screen, why dio i need RED?

Why do you need red? I made the mistake of learning this the hard way: buying a 4k camera first, then learning why I need it. I don't see myself putting anything on the big screen for a long time, so it worries me to think I just dropped $17k and counting, on a camera that I wouldn't be using to its full potential. But then I learned about 4k, raw, hdrx, and realized that with all of these, I can push my picture to the limits without sacrificing quality, and have plenty of room to work with to portray and produce the exact images that I have visualized. And it's because of these things that make "shooting for the big screen" a possibility. And in the even that it does happen, I know I would be well equipped for it.

Before learning what I learned since reading up on reduser, I would have never been able to tell the difference in cameras used to film movies like "Act of Valor". But my eyes are open and the advantages and limitations are all clear to me now.

 

[Nick Morrison]

now tell me Mr Filipkowski,
if I don't shoot for big screen, why dio i need RED?

Its pretty common knowledge that DSLRS excel locked off on a tripod. Especially with the 5D, the extra shallow depth of field and a portrait lens on it, it can look great. No one denies that. But start to MOVE the camera, and the image will fall apart. Not on Scarlet. Try to grade the footage, it will fall apart. Not on Scarlet. Even try to shoot at night, and its a whole new ballgame.

No one is denying DSLRS are great.

But they are not Hollywood Cinema cameras.

A DSLR cannot do this:

I found this clip today on VIMEO and think its a great example of how the Scarlet performs at night. Pretty stunning footage really. With a 2.8 lens no less. My DSLRS could never do this.

Check out some night shots we did a couple of months ago on DSLR and you'll see what I mean:

These look good, but you can't compare. The skin tones and blacks are really pushed to the limit. Under stressful conditions, DSLR footage fights to stay above water. While the Scarlet feels like an Olympic swimmer.

 

[Matthew Richard Harris]

Nick, excellent post, thanks.

 

[Malvin Ng]

To the TS : first is RED and the second is the Canon... you can tell because of the slightly purple-ish thing going on in the highlights :x

 

[Matthew Scott]

I'd say the second shot is RED. Mixing these two cams for 1080p (or less) was never a worry for me...but you have done exceptionally well here The first shot is DSLR...look at the way highlights roll......and it would make sense to shoot the wider shot on a full frame sensor (lens coverage) to me. Second shot has loads more fine detail, even though it is a tighter shot and shooting 85mm will look sharper than shooting 24mm anyway...but I'll still stick to it. The detail in his hair and the highlight roll-off is the giveaway. 1st shot DSLR, second shot RED! Thanks for sharing

 

[greg filipkowski]

Ok guys , let me get something straight since I shoot both red and 5 d, red is better especially when shadows are present or if there is movement, this was not a camera test, just trying to match color. The first shot is red with 24 canon lens the second shot is with 85 canon lens 5d.

Also here is another example 80% 5d and red, why? Just learning the cam
http://vimeo.com/37702260

 

[Paramon Ivanovich]

Thank you Mr Filipkowski,
I'll take it as we still need both
and I love your filming

 

[Carelton Holt]

We mostly shoot for 1080 and already see many advantages of our Reds over our 5Ds, even for straight 1080 workflow:
1. Many handheld shots on our 5Ds show significant jello effect... this is also true of some of our aerial shots that is far better on the Scarlet.
2. The moire on 5D has actually ruined some footage for us. Things like tile roofs on buildings in our aerials to clothing often show heavy moire. While waiting for our second Scarlet to arrive, we were shooting a two camera interview, one with the Scarlet and the other with our 5D and even what we thought would be a safe wardrobe item (a solid blue oxford cloth shirt) showed moire on the collar from the 5D that didn't exist with the Scarlet footage.
3. In the same interview, we realized in post that we could easily create two camera perspectives from the single Scarlet clip by zooming in on the 1080 timeline. For us it means that we get two perspectives on any interview with only one camera or 4 angles with two cameras. This greatly increases production value and is a game changer on something so simple as an interview.
4. For color balance and correction there just isn't any comparison. Even using the Tecnicolor profile on the 5D, it crashes quickly if any significant color correction is needed. We do a lot of golf course marketing stuff and the clients are always asking to push the green of the grass. With the 5D footage, it looks "neon" very quickly when we try to push the colors. The RAW footage from the Scarlet allows for a natural green saturation that we just couldn't get form the 5D.
5. High contrast scenes like shooting towards windows in the background are much improved with the Scarlet (even without HDRx).
6. Credibility with clients is much greater with the Scarlet. We have lost a few significant projects over the last two years simply over the DSLR stigma. We are confident the investment will see ROI this year alone in projects we might have otherwise lost to companies with higher end cameras.

There are a number of other reasons, but these are the ones that were a no-brainer for us. If you are making films to go out to web or DVD, then a 5d might be all you might need... especially the improved Mark III coming out soon. But if you are making a living with your camera, the Scarlet is really hard to beat!

now tell me Mr Filipkowski,
if I don't shoot for big screen, why dio i need RED?

 

[greg filipkowski]

Great post Carelton
I will be posting more tests

 

[Nick Morrison]

6. Credibility with clients is much greater with the Scarlet. We have lost a few significant projects over the last two years simply over the DSLR stigma. We are confident the investment will see ROI this year alone in projects we might have otherwise lost to companies with higher end cameras.

Carelton, I readily agree. At Astronaut, we've decided the same thing. To replace our DSLRS, and invest in two Scarlets, because we believe it will change how our clients see us, and also up the caliber and quality work we get.

We work in promo primarily, but the line between promo and advertising becomes very thin when you start shooting on the Scarlet. We're hoping the Scarlet helps us bridge that gap faster this year.

And we shoot lots of pilots, and shooting them on the Scarlet going forward is only going to up their value and look. We've had some success already, but its still very hard to make a lasting impression in the content world if you are an outsider. We're hoping the Scarlets help make that just a tad easier this year.

 

[Marc Wielage]

Its pretty common knowledge that DSLRS excel locked off on a tripod. Especially with the 5D, the extra shallow depth of field and a portrait lens on it, it can look great. No one denies that. But start to MOVE the camera, and the image will fall apart. Not on Scarlet. Try to grade the footage, it will fall apart. Not on Scarlet.

It doesn't completely fall apart, but the 5Ds can get very "bumpy" and granular when you push them too far. The 8-bit compression kills them more than anything else.

I have had projects where I had to color-match Red One, 5D, and a Sony EX-3 within one scene, and it was a bit of a nightmare (reality show). Nobody will know on the air, but I did have to degrade the Red footage in some cases just to put everything in the same ballpark. Not ideal.

A later shoot had 2 Reds -- one very badly adjusted, one perfectly clean. Equally nightmarish to deal with.