Scarlet - Mixed Results

[Marc Oberdorfer]

Hey Josef,

yes I was thinking the same. Relative high level of noise at ISO800. Although at 4k it's relatively fine grained, it's definitely there.

You probably all have seen the ISO introduction here:
http://infotech.dreamwelder.com/more-about-joomla2/25/134-red102page

He speaks about how there should be "no" noise at ISO800, and if you do get noise you probably have some settings wrong (like added gain).
I really cannot tell how it is possible to get a noise free (literally) image at ISO800, I can't seem to get it.

I will do some intensive testing in the next two weeks as I might take my Scarlet on a feature shoot in November. Have to look into FLUT etc.

 

[Joesef o.]

I think hes doing his "testing" all wrong. There is NO way I've gotten at ISO 800 clean blacks. Maybe its just my RED, but I've had no luck with 800 in low light. I just shot a ton of scenes for a short and unfortunately listened to people saying shoot at 800... Well I lit my set for 800 and sure enough I couldn't see any noise. Not on the LCD.....

Looked at it on a monitor, and noise EVERYWHERE. I had to pop down to 500 to make it usable. So no clue where people get 800 is "clean" from, because I just dont see it. Not in low light, in bright situations sure, but not in low light.

 

[Jason Ano]

Here is a comparison shot of ISO 320 / 800. I put my Scarlet on my kitchen table for a basic test, all shots are at 100mm f/2.8 24p using whatever lights I had turned on. My "Looks" setup has been replicated to infotech's settings, where I reset my curves and made sure my exposure is not being pushed - set to 0.

I see noise at 800, but not at 320, however 320 is not entirely clean either. To my understanding, this is acceptable because you have to apply some sort of noise reduction anyway wether in RED Cine-X or some filter in your NLE. I hope this helps you in some way.


Medium Shot
http://jasonano.com/red/RED_noise1.jpg

Close Up
http://jasonano.com/red/RED_noise2.jpg

Also, let me know if you want me to shoot a specific scene/setup and I'll be glad to post some screens.

 

[Joesef o.]

Here is a comparison shot of ISO 320 / 800. I put my Scarlet on my kitchen table for a basic test, all shots are at 100mm f/2.8 24p using whatever lights I had turned on. My "Looks" setup has been replicated to infotech's settings, where I reset my curves and made sure my exposure is not being pushed - set to 0.

I see noise at 800, but not at 320, however 320 is not entirely clean either. To my understanding, this is acceptable because you have to apply some sort of noise reduction anyway wether in RED Cine-X or some filter in your NLE. I hope this helps you in some way.


Medium Shot
http://jasonano.com/red/RED_noise1.jpg

Close Up
http://jasonano.com/red/RED_noise2.jpg

Also, let me know if you want me to shoot a specific scene/setup and I'll be glad to post some screens.

Good quick simple test, I did something similar when I first got the camera, I setup a small light in a "low light" situation and shot through the iso's and got the same thing. Too noisy for 800 but looked much cleaner at 320 - 400

I tend to shoot a lot of dark stuff : horror, night time, film noir, ect ect... So hearing people from red saying I should be shooting at ISO 800 just makes no sense if I want a clean image. Sorry but these simple tests can be done just as shown above. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the camera at 800 doesn't do well with noise. With that said. Knowing to light for ISO 400 makes life easy and now I just have to understand the limitations of the sensor and go from there I guess.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

After the calibration cranking up to ISO 12800 the image is definitely not black, more greyish and the noise is pretty even... I guess that's the way it's supposed to be right?

Yes, the blackshade is successfull if the camera gives you @ 12800 a even gray.
If you see strange lines or darker variations through the image you have a bad BS.

Pat

 

[paul schefz]

just did a blackshade .....how do i get the even grey? i recorded some black, took it into rcx, cranked it up to 12800 and it is not grey at all....and tons of noise.....
when performing the blackshade, there are 2 options...which one should i choose?

 

[Marc Oberdorfer]

Paul,
you don't have to record any footage, can be done in camera and seen on the spot.

After you've done the BS, leave the lens cap on, adjust your ISO all the way up to 12800.
You will see that the grain is being amplified a lot and you will get a greyish image. The grain pattern should be even, then you're good to go.

 

[Marc Oberdorfer]

Good quick simple test, I did something similar when I first got the camera, I setup a small light in a "low light" situation and shot through the iso's and got the same thing. Too noisy for 800 but looked much cleaner at 320 - 400

I tend to shoot a lot of dark stuff : horror, night time, film noir, ect ect... So hearing people from red saying I should be shooting at ISO 800 just makes no sense if I want a clean image. Sorry but these simple tests can be done just as shown above. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the camera at 800 doesn't do well with noise. With that said. Knowing to light for ISO 400 makes life easy and now I just have to understand the limitations of the sensor and go from there I guess.

I will go through some similar testing next week for a upcoming feature. We most likely won't have a lot of low light shooting so that's good.
I have yet to read through a lot more info here on the board, but isn't it that when you rate your ISO under 800 you're shifting dynamic range lower and will lose some highlight protection so to speak?