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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

'Scarlet' is it is it meant to be?

D

Don'Dada

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I think this is my first post here...
(apparently i had registered but didn't now about it)

I am a shooter (with no formal training"film school" who is still stuck on my 5dmkII.
It produces a great image and for a long time I have been working on my craft choosing to invest my little money into lighting and audio equipment instead of trying to keep up with the new and latest camera body of the month (we live in some crazy times).
I feel if you can bring the light and the audio properly to life it will do more for you production then the image quality of your camera (maybe I am wrong.. It has just been my philosophy for some time).

I am finally at that stage where I am looking to upgrade to a new camera. Dynamic range is very important to me and something I have very much missed when shooting on DSLR's but its also the "motion" I have never been happy with the motion and the feel of imagery produced by DSLR's.
I was considering to go the BMCC 2.5k and love the picture and dynamic range, hate the motion however!
I have had my eye on the D16 as I do like the motion and the rolling shutter and I have been weighing up between these two cameras looking at footage and studding them to see what I like/dont like about them but also in general what I am trying to achieve with my work.
I shoot music videos and short movies this is not my full time income but I would like it to be... and 2014 might just be the year where I take the step out and see where I can take this.

And it dawned on me.. that the RED cameras pretty much have everything I am looking for in a image (maybe not a big surprise knowing there reputation and there price range).

But I am now thinking should I consider the Scarlet.. after all it ticks all my boxes as far as imagery goes I think I would be extremely happy with this camera (some what of a dream camera for me).
But can I make it work on my budget I dont know...
This is where I turn to the forum.
I have searched and read topics regarding "bare bones Scarlet set up" etc but most of these posts are from 2012 and I know prices have shifted from then and also second hand prices (as this is what I would be looking to buy second hand).

What would be the bare bone minimal set up I would need to be up and shooting if not considering lenses or a rig?

Right of the bat I would say.

- Scarlet X brain
- RED LCD 5" (to navigate menus, but can you use this as a monitor to set critical focus and frame?)
- Power (Here I am guessing a V-mount battery system would be the cheapest?)
- Memory (This seams to be the most expensive as those REDMAG are very pricey. How many would one need to be able to do a full days shoot or half days shoot?)

What else am I missing and what would I need to be up and running and how much would I be looking at if trying to buy second hand (most of the stuff) ?

Sorry for the long post... looking forward to hear your responses.
 
A film shot on a 5D mk2 but with a great lighting budget is invariably going to look better than that same film shot on a Red Epic-Dragon with no lighting budget.


Why do you want a Scarlet? Is it just to make your own films with or is it to make money with? There's no way around it - buying a Red DSMC and everything you need to get it going can be expensive if you're just starting out and if you're looking to see a return on that investment, right now I don't think it's a wise choice. Scarlets are too expensive for the people that would normally go for DSLR work and for people who CAN afford it, they just get Epics.

The 5D mk3 (especially in Raw mode with the magic lantern hack) is enough of a step up in picture quality to justify the purchase and you already have compatible equipment. In fact a Canon C100 + some great lenses would be easy to rent out as -is without too much additional investment and would probably still be a lot lot cheaper than a Scarlet setup.

That said, I absolutely love my Scarlet and I get it to pay its way because I'm hired as a DP with my own gear.
 
I have been shooting for some time mostly with DSLR's getting payed work but not actively seeking film work as I have another job that payes the bills
The Scarlet would be first for my own personal film projects (I understand I could hire camera/gear for this but I like to own and really become familiar with it).
I would like to branch out more and get more payed work.. in the future.

What would be the bare bones minimum second hand set up?
 
A couple things. The Scarlet is in no way cheap. The other cameras are a good solution, I am considering a D16 myself, it can fill in the gap my Scarlet does not fill. The BMCC is tempting for Resolve. That be said, I fell in love with my Scarlet. I love REDRaw, it is the BEST solution out there. The files are a dream to work with. (Download .r3d files from one of the many "grade my work" threads.) Now with the Wide screen resolutions and framerates, the Scarlet really is starting to shine.

For Memory I get away with 2 64 GB SSDs, plus a laptop. A 64 GB will last you about 30 minutes. Off load it to a lap top. This is not ideal however. I have done events on my Scarlet, I usually shoot 3K at a high compression ratio, a 64 GB card will get slightly below an hour of footage. I would recommend at least 3 64 GB cards.

There are many power solutions out there. (I just use the RedVolts, which are very limited. They last about 30 minutes.)

Yes, the monitor has a touch focus, anywhere on the screen. It works pretty good, it has many different focus modes. I still prefer manual, so I have not played with them as much as I should.

I would also recommend a RedMote or a side handle. Yes the touch screen can do everything, but it is not ideal. (But if you hold out, that can be upgraded later.)

That is one of the major benefits of the Red Ecosystem, you can update things later and build your camera as you build. I am currently saving for the Dragon right now, and really anything beyond the Scarlet Dragon will be nitpicky IMHO. It is all someone like me will ever need. (I am glad the camera world has finally hit that point.)

P.S. I am in the same boat as you. My camera is a "hobby" camera. It has paid itself off without trying. Just from random gigs. I have another job that pays the bills. I am so glad I joined the RED team! It was hard to purchase it, but I never looked back.
 
Depened on the shooting style but I shoot around 2x128g/day with the scarlet at lowest compression at 4k. So get 3x128g and you probely could leave the laptop at home. But if you do alot of dialog and long takes you will need to bring more or off load to laptop.
 
Bare bones Scarlet is going to cost you 13-15K.
Sure, you can make the math work cheaper, but in the end your going to spend at least that in accessories, media, batteries etc.
I just traded up to Epic, but the Scarlet that I originally bought as a B-Cam for my commercial shoots cost about 23K all-in to get set-worthy.

Buy what you think you need, but remember that Scarlet is a large & heavy commercial camera compared to a DSLR's...so you won't be able to achieve the same immediacy or even close to the level of stealth you may currently enjoy in your shoots. Secondly, know that no one will hire you specifically because you own a Scarlet. In fact, they may prefer you have the 5D through name recognition alone.

If you have the work to justify the expense then Scarlet is a brilliant camera, but if you can't pay it off in 12-18 months through jobs you may want to consider investing the money in you film projects while shooting 5D and/or renting a really nice Scarlet package to try out.

Good luck.
 
Scarlet X

Scarlet X

I bought my Scarlet X a year ago to shoot music videos and I also moved up from the Canon 5D mark II. I still use the 5d Mark ii for artist with smaller budgets and the Scarlet for larger music video projects. I purchased 1 64gb card and I usually off load footage to my computer about once or twice per shoot which has been no big deal for me thus far. You definitely need the side handle and I purchased plenty of Red Volts batteries about 8 to be precise. That has gotten me through every music video shoot with any problems. The only place I cut corners as far as purchase, was buying a third party hdmi monitor and that has worked wonders for me instead of kicking out 1,200.00 for a red monitor. Nevertheless you need either the side handle or the Red touch screen monitor to navigate so you need either or to get up and running. Good luck if you decide to purchase the Scarlet X, it's just something about the name RED that makes my some clients want to spend a little more than usual. Lol but that is not always the case for every
jobs.
 
buying a used scarlet and hiring an assistant to cycle your cards using fast ports and drives can save you a lot of cash. my cheap scarlet rig was brain, touch screen, nikon mount AL, 2 mags but i have 3 now, paglink vmount batteries, belt clip and charger and this got me by with a very bare bones set up. you can get a different monitor and use redmote to save even more... with paglink one charger can do up to 16 plane safe batteries, so it made alot of sense for me i thought
 
Whatever camera you buy, I would always recommend that half of your budget is just for the camera, the rest is for lenses, tripod, power and grip accessories, etc. If all you can afford is just the camera with the least amount of power and media, then I think it wouldn`t be a wise investment and you`ll have a hard time trying to rent your equipment.

Like someone said before, some people can get beautiful results with a dslr and a much lower budget, but once you get the whole potential of any Red equipment, there is no turning back, specially for your clients. It`s about having the right camera for you, but fully equipped.

I`ve been working as a DP/camera operator thanks to what some people would say it`s a disadvantage: Red has a learning curve. And most clients want things done NOW, NOW, NOW!! :)
If you become a good camera operator, with full knowledge of everything you need to know to shoot and post-produce with Red, then you are going to get job offers. If you intent to use the camera as you would with a Dslr, then you are dragging yourself and your client into a world of one complication after the other (-$$$$).

Good luck
 
I'm looking about the same thing, and this is the minimum gear. You can look into getting smaller minimags, but if you're blowing 17K, one minimag won't make the difference...

[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TH]Item[/TH]
[TH="width: 15%"]Quantity[/TH]
[TH="align: center"]Unit Price[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SCARLET-X [BRAIN ONLY] SKU: 710-0005[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]$7,950.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]RED TOUCH 5.0" LCD SKU: 730-0008[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]$1,600.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]DSMC AL CANON MOUNT SKU: 725-0004[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]$700.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]DSMC POWER PACK SKU: 740-0026[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]$515.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]RED MINI-MAG SIDE SSD MODULE SKU: 720-0021[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]$1,500.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]RED STATION RED MINI-MAG SKU: 750-0055[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]$195.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]RED MINI-MAG - 512GB SKU: 750-0053[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]$2,450.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]DSMC SIDE HANDLE SKU: 720-0012[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]$950.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Wouter Hermans said:
I'm looking about the same thing, and this is the minimum gear. You can look into getting smaller minimags, but if you're blowing 17K, one minimag won't make the difference...

[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TH]Item[/TH]
[TH="width: 15%"]Quantity[/TH]
[TH="align: center"]Unit Price[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SCARLET-X [BRAIN ONLY] SKU: 710-0005[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]$7,950.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]RED TOUCH 5.0" LCD SKU: 730-0008[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]$1,600.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]DSMC AL CANON MOUNT SKU: 725-0004[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]$700.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]DSMC POWER PACK SKU: 740-0026[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]$515.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]RED MINI-MAG SIDE SSD MODULE SKU: 720-0021[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]$1,500.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]RED STATION RED MINI-MAG SKU: 750-0055[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]$195.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]RED MINI-MAG - 512GB SKU: 750-0053[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]$2,450.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]DSMC SIDE HANDLE SKU: 720-0012[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]$950.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Click to expand...
Obviously, look through the Scarlet Buying Guide to get an idea on what all these parts mean to you.

Basically, you need the brain, power, a lens mount, a way to control the brain, a recorder, a recording medium and a way to offload your media. Which de facto means the Scarlet with lens mount, the DSMC handle to house the battery in and the 5" touch screen to see what you are doing and control the brain, one but preferably two SSD Mags but recently newer, cheaper Mini mags came out, and a MAG reader (the Red Station) which is also cheaper if you choose the minimal. And the brain needs also the SSD mag side module, which is again cheaper in mini mag version. Hence the above shopping list.

Now, 17K is a doozy, but a Sony F5 hits that price point too, and you're stuck with still no SxS cards for media, nor does your computer have an SxS card reader. But you do get built-in ND filters... But not the ability to spend another 9K to upgrade your Scarlet in the future to an Epic. There is no F5 to F55 for 9K.
 
I think you should add a dsmc side handle if you can swing it. Coming from a DSLR you will appreciate the ergonomics. I know I do, and it makes run and gun scenarios that much easier if you're not using a shoulder rig.

Power - I use Anton Bauer. Pricier than V mount, but Universal in the US as far as rental houses go. If I ever have a long shoot outdoors and don't have access to an outlet, renting batteries is key, do a little research on what types of batteries your favorite rental store carries. Don't forget you'll need an adapter for your batteries, which will be another $300 or so.

Memory - 2 64GB cards should be able to get you by for short form type of shoots (commercials/music vids/short narrative scenes) if you are able to dump onto a hard drive during downtime or if you turn up the compression to make your files smaller. Depends on what quality you need. For longer form projects shooting all day without dumping, multiple 128s would be a better choice. Remember you can always rent SSDs too if you build this into the budget if spending $1000 or more on cards is out of your reach at this moment.

Ben Scott is 100% correct. While DR and Resolution on a Scarlet is greater than a 5D, knowledge of lighting and access to light kits is really important. I also can't stress enough of learning how to grade your images properly as well (which comes back to exposing and lighting them correctly in the first place). If you don't do a lot of grading on your 5D work be prepared to learn how to do so to maximize the reason why you would want to shoot raw in the first place.
 
Don

I'll Chime in here because when I bought my Scarlet I went bare bones as well.

Obviously you need a brain, SSD side module and lens mount.

I agree that buying the brain new is the wisest move because of the warranty. Also, the Epic upgrade path is a nice option that you will want someday I promise. :) However I would buy the side SSD module used now that the newer minimag system is out and there are a lot of second hand original side ssd modules available. You should be able to buy one for $1k or less.

For the lens mount, if you are going with a PL mount, those too are plentiful secondhand now that the motion mount is out. They seem to be selling for less tha $1500 now. If you are going Canon or Nikon it's probably not worth the trouble trying to find a used one just to save $100-200.

Buy two 64gb REDmags and a reader used. Again, a lot of second hand supply now with the newer minimags out. These should set you back less than $1k. As long as you already own a laptop with either an ESATA, FW800 or USB 3.0 connection, you can literally offload a 64GB card faster than you can shoot it. BTW if you have USB 3.0 budget another $30 for the Startech.com Esata to usb 3.0 cable. (works great)

Now you need a way to control the camera. You options are the Side Handle, 5" touch and redmote. When I originally bought my Scarlet I went with the Side Handle because I already owned a nice monitor. If you have a good monitor this is a great option. Once you get used to it the Side Handle is very fast for navigating the menues. However the 5" touch is awesome too. I never owned the touch until after I upgraded to Epic and it's great, especially for it's ability to scrub through playback clips. Also it's a damned good monitor to boot. If I were starting out I'm not sure which way I'd go. If I already owned a good monitor I'd probably still get the Side Handle first, just because the side handle is equally awesome and it saves you $600 which is a lot! But if you can swing it, get both. :) Either way it's a tough call.

For power I would avoid the redvolts! They are just too expensive for how much power they have and they don't seem to last very long. They also seem to degrade fast as well. I would go with 220wh Dynacore batteries from ebay. Get 2-3 and you will be set. They are $330 each and will power the camera for 3-4 hours! I can't recommend them enough.

If you want to really get cheap, you can buy a used IDX V-lock plate off ebay and wire it up yourself too. Probably not worth it but if your budget is that strapped PM me and I'll tell you how to do it. I paid $45 for mine plus $75 for the Lemo cable.

So here's my total bare minimum cost:

$9k Brain with used SSD moudule
$700-1500 Lens mount
$1k Media
$1k Side Handle
$750-1300 Power Solution

So $13k complete is doable. Believe me, I've done it.



Hope that helps
 
My first Red Scarlet package I purchased Fall 2013 for $9500, I bought a complete kit without lens. Its just a matter of availability. In September there were an abundance of Scarlet's for sale. Now there hard to find or a similar deal in the price range.

Red Scarlet-X Canon AL Mount
Side SSD
DSMC Side Handle
5'inch Red LCD Touchscreen
2x Side Handle Batteries
Red SH Charger
64GD Red SSD
Redmote

After some more 4K cameras hit the market this spring, maybe we'll see some deals again.
 
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