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Scarlet Interchangeable + Mini Primes

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Gary Paul Walker

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Does anyone know if there's been any indication either from Jim or someone else that the Mini Primes will be available when the Scarlet Cinema is released? I'm hoping to pick up a set at the same time....
 
If I remember correctly, someone in the Red team said that will be the case. Mini Primes will be released at the same time as the 2/3" interchangeable brain.
 
Which is not subject to release until the fall. Course things could change. ;)
 
Excellent! Cheers chaps!
Now to live the life of a pauper until that wonderful day comes...
 
Not to start a rumor, but after the Red Event tonight while everyone was drooling over the Epic and the Fixed Scarlet, Ted sounded less than positive on the interchangeable.

Here's the dialog as I recollect.

INT. Stage 4

A throng of people are closed in on an EPIC-M on a tripod and a Scarlet Fixed is being passed around. PERSON A hands the Scarlet fixed to TED.

Person A:
Well, the Interchangable Lens Scarlet is now a little up in the air now...

TED:
(hesitant)
Yes... Never say never, but it's on the roadmap.​

So yeah, that happened. It seems like Epic, Fixed Scarlet, and Epic S are the orders of the day with the Interchangable 2/3 Scarlet is some where lower on the list.
 
Now that is indeed a bummer for anyone on a budget that enjoys the look of wide angle lenses. The fixed zoom is what 28mm in 35 equivalent at the widest?

That is a big issue... I love the look on the ultra wide side for establishing shots etc.

If the Epic S had higher frame rates, then I'd jump at it and its higher cost, but now it seems like all the camera specs being detailed involve too much of a compromise for the low budget action filmmaker.
 
Well, who knows, it might still happen, just seemed like something that was way off the radar. But as with everything else RED, things are subject to change.

Personally, 28mm is my favorite focal length, but I do love ultra-wide angles too.
 
Maybe Jim will be kind enough to jump in at some point with some sort of indication of the potential roadmap for the Scarlet Cinema...
 
To me, the most elegant and appealing solution might be to modify the fixed scarlet. If Red provided that camera with the zoom at the same price point, but allowed the owner to remove the lens and put on their own glass as well, then we might be on to something really exciting.
 
KentNichols said:
So yeah, that happened. It seems like Epic, Fixed Scarlet, and Epic S are the orders of the day with the Interchangable 2/3 Scarlet is some where lower on the list.
Click to expand...

Hopefully we can get some more info from RED on this issue. They certainly haven't said anything that apparently negative regarding the fixed on these forums, so I'm wondering if what was said then was just a misunderstanding or miscommunication.

A month and a half-ago, the plan was for 8x and Interchangeable to be shipping "soon after" Epic-X begins shipping.

gediminas alexandras said:
To me, the most elegant and appealing solution might be to modify the fixed scarlet. If Red provided that camera with the zoom at the same price point, but allowed the owner to remove the lens and put on their own glass as well, then we might be on to something really exciting.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the fixed lens is built into the very structure of the brain and camera. There isn't anything one could do - barring major technical and mechanical reinvention - to effectively convert the Fixed Scarlet to an Interchangeable.

Here you can see that what is visible of the lens on the Fixed Scarlet is just a small part of the machine. There are many integrated components buried deep within the brain.

8x-fixed-scarlet.jpg
 
Yeah we have been around this block before. The lens by itself would cost as much or more than the whole fixed brain with lens. Indeed you could buy the cinema + mini-primes and a fixed brain together for less than the cost of comparable aftermarket fully robotic servo zooms.

The interchangeable cinema model will be built I am sure. They have showed test bodies with mini-primes mounted to ET Neutron 3d rigs. This will be the lightest high resolution 3D rig out there by 20lbs or so. For that application alone I think it will be a pretty popular camera, and the combo of a fixed and cinema + mini-primes will be a great indie production package. The fixed will be a great small crane camera with full wireless remote control over the lens.
 
David Rasberry said:
Yeah we have been around this block before. The lens by itself would cost as much or more than the whole fixed brain with lens. Indeed you could buy the cinema + mini-primes and a fixed brain together for less than the cost of comparable aftermarket fully robotic servo zooms.

The interchangeable cinema model will be built I am sure. They have showed test bodies with mini-primes mounted to ET Neutron 3d rigs. This will be the lightest high resolution 3D rig out there by 20lbs or so. For that application alone I think it will be a pretty popular camera, and the combo of a fixed and cinema + mini-primes will be a great indie production package. The fixed will be a great small crane camera with full wireless remote control over the lens.
Click to expand...


Its the form factor of the Scarlet Cinema that I find so appealing. The size, weight, price, resolution, sensor size- and yes the price- tick so many boxes for me - perfect for the sort of style and narrative that I like to film.
 
gediminas alexandras said:
To me, the most elegant and appealing solution might be to modify the fixed scarlet. If Red provided that camera with the zoom at the same price point, but allowed the owner to remove the lens and put on their own glass as well, then we might be on to something really exciting.
Click to expand...

From everything we have been told to date, the lens and its electronics are very much integrated into the Scarlet body, so decoupling them would be a difficult and impractical task. RED has also made it pretty clear that there are no current plans to offer the fixed lens as a standalone unit, which, from everything I can tell, would be one killer lens. :001_smile:

EDIT: Wow - there sure where a lot of responses before I could fire mine off!! I'm gonna have to up my game! LOL
 
Terry VerHaar said:
From everything we have been told to date, the lens and its electronics are very much integrated into the Scarlet body, so decoupling them would be a difficult and impractical task. RED has also made it pretty clear that there are no current plans to offer the fixed lens as a standalone unit, which, from everything I can tell, would be one killer lens. :001_smile:

EDIT: Wow - there sure where a lot of responses before I could fire mine off!! I'm gonna have to up my game! LOL
Click to expand...

I too have felt the crushing dissapointment of posting a well-thought out response, only to find that 4 people have just done the same, and in some cases far better worded.
 
KentNichols said:
Person A:
Well, the Interchangable Lens Scarlet is now a little up in the air now...

TED:
(hesitant)
Yes... Never say never, but it's on the roadmap.​
[/INDENT]
Click to expand...

Ah, well there you go then. From a product positioning point that actually kinda makes sense, IMO. Because the fixed, even at T2.5, isn't going to be something cinema shooters are going to be entirely happy about using. It will be amazing for doc guys and people shooting live events and the like, but it's a little limited for cinema guys. So by limiting the effective usefulness of the Scarlet it kinda pushes the indie movie guys towards the Epic S. Which makes a ton of sense, really. It's unfortunate, but I can see why it would happen.

Also it allows them to kinda tweak the 2/3" system around the lens they're shipping it with. No chance of someone with some freakish lens they've adapted finding some achilles heel of the sensor if RED know in advance what every possible combination of lens, aperture and effective ISO the box will be dealing with.
 
T2.3-2.5 seems to be about the sweet spot for fast high quality cine zooms. You can get B4 HD glass that is a stop faster, but the S16 and S35 zooms all seem to fall in the 2.3-3.0 range. It probably gets exponentially more difficult and expensive to maintain good optical performance throughout the zoom range at faster apertures not to mention getting bigger fast.
I have a rare Taylor-Hobson f1.6 8-24mm wide angle 16mm zoom that has around 104mm front element. Looking forward to playing with that on a Scarlet.
 
David Rasberry said:
T2.3-2.5 seems to be about the sweet spot for fast high quality cine zooms.
Click to expand...

Oh, I wasn't talking about zooms. I was thinking of guys who use fast primes. A lot of 2/3" cinema stuff has kinda relied on DigiPrimes. Although, the DigiZooms have been popular, too. I know those were used on Zodiac a lot, but they can be used wide-open at T1.9 and still seem to look great.

The Scarlet/Mini Prime solution was going to be something of an alternative to that F23/Digiprime trip at a much more reasonable price. And who knows, it may still happen. It just seems reasonable that the Scarlet interchangeable might not really fit into Red's lineup without stepping on toes. I was kinda amazed, really. A $900 T1.5 prime for a 2/3" cinema camera is pretty unheard-of. Digiprimes are generally T1.6 and cost about $15,000 each. I mean, I'm sure there's probably some Zeiss pixie-dust there that trumps the performance of the Mini Primes, but I'll bet they were pretty good.
 
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