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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet for idiots?

james Mallon said:
When I said I was an idiot it was self depreciation, i'm British (you know that small country that produces most of the talent in Hollywood) a sense of humour thing you might understand it as in your country. And also a touch of irony as I have two University degrees how about you?


I just asked for a workable workflow for a digital camera and you throw personal insults around. I maintain that the fixed lens scarlet is more geared toward the low end and is way different to using the high end REDS or even the higer spec'd Scarlet's.
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I get your humour (as I have been living in UK for 12 years) and I actually have a master degree in computer science.

But then again - is there such thing as Idiot workflow? I think you have to re-wording your question.

One more thing - nobody (apart from Jim and co) has seen the real thing. I think you might want to come back in one year time and post this question again.
 
Joel you probably right, but hopefully less than 1 year though fingers crossed. I was just working on the assumption the fixed lens was going to be 3K and be the same as the red one footage. I think one year will see a lot of development be it DSLR video maturing and the RED, exciting times I think.
 
HI James

If you want to get head started - there are rental house in UK that willing to give you a lesson (although it's not free) but there are couple will refund you the money when you rent their gear.

Also there is a post house in Nottinghill are doing quick and dirty starter class for about £100+VAT (if you are shooting people you get 20% discount). I am gonna to take one of the post house class - cos it take you through the workflow.

Although the size is different (bit rate in codec is different) but there isn't really much of a different between cutting 4K RED or 2K RED (unless it's the elephant 26K REDCODE)

I am lucky I am a Mac person :) so less headache for me.
 
James,

Having two university degrees may make you actually overqualified to work a Scarlet.

Seriously, film making is a highly technical trade. If you want to get the most out a camera (any camera,) learn its workflow. Regarding the Red one, there is an awfull lot of info on this site. Use it! Download r3d footage, participate in OpenCut and learn its workflow.

Just spend a bit of time with it instead, its not too difficult...

(P.S. Please, ask your question in less than 10 words if you require an answer in less than 50 words...)
 
james Mallon said:
I maintain that the fixed lens scarlet is more geared toward the low end and is way different to using the high end REDS or even the higer spec'd Scarlet's.
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And that is where you're wrong. And your Degrees dont rescue you here. The Scarlet is no low End Consumer Thing. It's the Same high End digital Cinema, only with a 2/3" Chip and a fixed Lens build in.

You need to know the Red Workflow to use the Red Workflow.

George
 
james Mallon said:
Sorry, Hope that got some attention.

I looked for quite a while on the workflow section to find out a simple way to edit the Scarlet (3K) Fixed lens. Man why is it things have to be so techie, filmining is an art not computer programming. i look at these extensive posts and articles on de-noising, bit rate blah blah and then look at their footage and its looks like good qauity tedious junk, Editing is an art form not a technical thing or at least the tech side shouldn't overwhelm the creative side especially for indie users.

So My question is this and its for idiots like me who want to use the scarlett and edit great looking footage. What is most simple way to do that. Please answer in less than 50 words!

(I am thinking Ok I buy an Imac good spec, an external hardrive, the red footage can be edited at a lower quality setting and exported at a higher quality. FCP will be able to handle the footage natively or does Red use a codec that compresses it. )

Please for the love of god no techie stuff assume I'm an idiot, my girlfriend does.
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Because its built for pros where picture is king and achieving best quality is very hard and tricky all the time.
Consumer camcorders are designed for "idiots" where simplicity, low price and instant quality of image is king.

Different toys for different tots.
 
GPSchnyder said:
And that is where you're wrong. And your Degrees dont rescue you here. The Scarlet is no low End Consumer Thing. It's the Same high End digital Cinema, only with a 2/3" Chip and a fixed Lens build in.

You need to know the Red Workflow to use the Red Workflow.
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Actually, i''m pretty sure you're wrong. As far as i know, fixed lens Scarlet is supposed to have auto everything, if so chosen, and all Scarlets can shoot 1080p RGB.

So, it will work both ways - you can use the camera just like Red One, and follow the Red One post workflow for maximum quality but you can ALSO pretty much use it as a point-and-shooter with light and simple post workflow.
 
How about a major in Theatre and a minor in Religious Studies?

(I consider any job where I don't have to ask 'Would you like fries with that?' a victory ...) :)
 
Just buy a $2000 i7 PC, Cs4 and your away.

As easy as editing dv, and yes I do it, and it works well.
 
Eki Halkka said:
Actually, i''m pretty sure you're wrong. As far as i know, fixed lens Scarlet is supposed to have auto everything, if so chosen, and all Scarlets can shoot 1080p RGB.

So, it will work both ways - you can use the camera just like Red One, and follow the Red One post workflow for maximum quality but you can ALSO pretty much use it as a point-and-shooter with light and simple post workflow.
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Didn't say that she will not have AutoAll and 1080p RGB, but that doesn't mean that she is Low End. If you want full Quality there is no way around a digital Post. He wanted a simple way to edit the Scarlet (3K) Fixed lens. in 3k. And that means digital Post.

1080p may be easier.
 
Why not be like Da Vinci, both techie and artist?

: )

One thing does not counter the other.

Luke Stewart said:
This underlying assumption of yours will stunt your growth as an artist. Its BOTH OK? You have to be good at both technical and creative aspects of filmmaking to be any good at it. And if you suck more at one than the other, then you are just going to have to work that much harder bringing yourself up to speed in that area.

I realize its a bit like trying to take a drink out of a firehose at times, you are reading posts from people in the very top of the industry, so cut yourself some slack. Take it one sip at a time and you'll be fine, but ditch the notion that its not technical. It always has been and always will be.
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Or just follow the advice of a better advice giver than me, I suck at advicing people... Specially in english.

: )
 
I've made my living as an independent producer since the late 70s and all I can say is "School is Never Out!". I've had to learn four new nonlinear editing systems over the past several years and we've all got to use the tools...

At the end of the day, I'd rather think about WHAT I'm doing than HOW to do it... but you've got to learn the how part as well... the better you get at that part the less you have to think about it... then you can concentrate more on the creative decisions like background music and mixing visuals.

There has been a lot of discussion of resolution and all I have to say is:
What is your finished product, your deliverable, going to be to your client.
Can they actually play anything at 4K? As we saw in the Premier demo, we're probably going to downsample at some point. Most commercials are still shown in standard definition NTSC. 1024 is probably going to be the max useable resolution for most of us for quite some time.

At issue is the quality of that image... that's what we're expecting out of the camera... it's just a tool albeit a primary one... like editing software... which for me, is what it's all about... getting the right pieces into the post.
 
Thanks for the contributions, though my original question turned into an assumption I was anti technology and a simpleton. My original question was to get a plain english description of what I will need to edit the scarlet footage. I actually found the support link on the RED site now and its much more clear. RED may be aiming at pro's but I don't think they are over complicating things, quite the opposite they seem to have as a general vision the goal of making filmaking more democratic and accessible. I think if you have a attitude of were the 'Pros' and amateurs need to leave the room then I think you miss the point. I have heard RED representatives state they want to put PRO equipment into as many creative hands as possible. many on this board have to accept 10 years ago they wouldn't be able to play a part in 'celluoid' filmaking so get humble, thankful and help each other in this new time.
 
james Mallon said:
Thanks for the contributions, though my original question turned into an assumption I was anti technology and a simpleton. My original question was to get a plain english description of what I will need to edit the scarlet footage. I
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James, I think you will find the workflow is continuously evolving and it can be as simple or as complicated as you choose to make it. It seems, in my experience, that most people tend to overcomplicate the RED workflow. Even more so with those who have never really worked with it and are critical of what RED is doing for one reason or another.

There are many options for working with RED footage and there should be more options and fewer bugs by the time Scarlet is released. Even right now, it's possible to take native R3D files directly into Final Cut or Adobe Premiere and just edit with them. Of course, there are a few caveats, mostly due to this still being beta software and some shortcomings of the host NLE applications. After all, they were not designed to deal with dynamic resolution extraction from wavelet sources. That's new territory for them.

As for picking a workflow, one good way to start is to ask yourself, "how would I want to work with my REDCODE footage?". Then start building a workflow from there. One thing to keep in mind is we are talking about "workflow"... There's a common misconception that a proper workflow is self-contained within a single application or suite of tools. This is not always the case, especially if you want the highest quality end product. But at this time, it is entirely possible to do this with your RED footage.

I could outline a few simple workflows here, but I think I would be reinventing the wheel somewhat. I would rather put the question to you of how do YOU want to work with your Scarlet footage and then I could point you in the right direction. Of course, all things subject to change, count on it... Scarlet is still months away. FWIW, I think the advice of shooting in 1080p may in fact be bad advice. This is a mode we have yet to see in action and will always be a shortcut option with compromises in comparison to recording the actual RAW image. I'm sure it will be a great option under the right circumstances, but would probably not be the first choice for most when they didn't have to.
 
Jeff,

Thats much more than the 50 words James restricted us to...
 
Pxion said:
Jeff,

Thats much more than the 50 words James restricted us to...
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I'm not one to play by the rules. But here's 50 words for you and it works on both Mac and PC.

Shoot desired REDCODE format using REC709, 5000K, ISO 320 and offload. Load Premiere CS4 and import REDCODE files into project bin. Edit as any other project, Sound Booth for audio. Import to After Effects. Use Color Finesse (included with AE CS4) for grading. Output via After Effects to desired format.
 
Not sure if you were referring to me... but I wasn't advocating shooting 1080 but considering it as a deliverable.
It's like when most people first start shooting digital with pro cameras... they shoot Jpeg files... then they see how much you can do with Photoshop with RAW images... I mean it's like getting an old color negative... you can bring back blown highlights and reclaim so much more image from the file, it's AMAZING! I only shoot camera RAW now with my Nikon.
Acquisition of moving images with that format provides a world of possibilities (and forgiveness) with the image.
 
You're right on the money, Dale. But there's quite a few people asking about shooting in the 1080p RGB mode on scarlet. I think the thought of 3K or 5K video files seems a bit daunting to some. Personally, I would prefer that RED leave any such modes as 1080p RGB off of the camera. That's just one less option for me to steer clients away from. As of now, I butt heads with clients, producers, etc.. who still have trouble wrapping their heads around the fact that the RED One doesn't record 1080p and they don't understand what 4K and RAW are all about.
 
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